PvP in an MMORPG is Hopeless

I know this is going to be like bailing out the ocean with a bucket, but here goes.

PvP in MMORPGs is terribly broken and always will be for the following reasons:

You can never balance it. MMORPGs are just too complex to be balanced for PvP combat. Against the world, things are largely fine, and imbalances are easier to fix when the target is static (mobs/bosses). But once we pit eight advanced classes with all their talent trees and dozens of abilities against each other, then every small difference can have large, unintended consequences. There’s always some flavor-of-the-month class that’s taking full advantage of these imbalances, until they get nerfed, which just makes way for a new flavor-of-the-month with his own new imbalances. Each new nerf or buff just creates three new imbalances which also need to be fixed, but never will be because the complexity it just too high to account and play test for all possibilities. For each mole you whack, three more pop up.

MMORPGs are about Character Skill, not Player Skill. That is, it’s largely about your gear and about the above mentioned imbalances. After those, then we might be able to talk about player skill differences, for all good it would do. The fight has largely already been won or lost based on classes, gear, and specs, before anyone ever hits a key.

Faction imbalances are impossible to correct for completely. At least, they are in the open world, which is why we have so much instanced PvP and warzones. This just brings up the question “Why not just PvP in a shooter on a 32 player server then? What do I need a Massively Multiplayer Game for if I’m only playing with 40-odd other people?”

Saying “this is why we need open world PvP,” just brings you back to the faction imbalance problem. You can nudge faction imbalances with XP rewards and such, but you can never really eliminate them, only dent them. One side will always be up on the other, so I guess it’s back to those instances so we can have a fair fight… at least by number of players anyway.

I don’t get why you folks don’t play Team Fortress 2 or something. It’s well balanced and there’s gear. And no, I don’t work for anyone in the gaming industry. I’m just genuinely puzzled. MMORPGs provide such a terrible PvP experience I’m baffled as to why anyone would bother.

There's a key difference. Forgive me for going back to my favorite example.

I've played a lot of Team Fortress 2 for years and my inventory shows it. I have every weapons for every class. As such, I'm much more potent than someone playing for the first time.

If he comes at me as a Medic and I'm on a Heavy, yeah, it's worse for him. But you know what? He still has a shot, and not a one-in-a-million, all-planets-align shot either. A decent player is always a threat, particularly when we can bring skills like reflexes and aim into this game from others.

Gear matters, but it doesn't make or break encounters. Certain classes are of course the counter-class to someone else, but that cuts both ways, and everyone has a decent shot against everyone else. They're still different, but it's reasonably well balanced.

A level 10 has absolutely no shot against a level 50 until you want to spin me a wild tale.

Gear > Skill. Someone who just hit 50 and is a great PvPer is just going to get curb stomped by someone who's a lousy PvPer, but in all the best gear.

OR... they're a healer. In which case they'll probably get clobbered.

You follow me? There's just too much going on in this genre for this type of competitive game play. You're not competing with me, you're competing with my character. We might as well play Pokemon.

Untrue. It's a different style of PvP, and for tournaments you create dedicated servers where all players have exactly the same class stats, but being an mmporg there is an added layer of complexity in the form of progression, PvE progression annotates there must be PvP progression, else the twain shall never meet. There is no disgrace losing to someone better geared than you, I don't understand this mentality, being bested is an opportunity to learn and grow, and if your growth takes you gear progression you'll have a better grasp on what MMPORPG progression means.

I know this is going to be like bailing out the ocean with a bucket, but here goes.

PvP in MMORPGs is terribly broken and always will be for the following reasons:

You can never balance it. MMORPGs are just too complex to be balanced for PvP combat. Against the world, things are largely fine, and imbalances are easier to fix when the target is static (mobs/bosses). But once we pit eight advanced classes with all their talent trees and dozens of abilities against each other, then every small difference can have large, unintended consequences. There’s always some flavor-of-the-month class that’s taking full advantage of these imbalances, until they get nerfed, which just makes way for a new flavor-of-the-month with his own new imbalances. Each new nerf or buff just creates three new imbalances which also need to be fixed, but never will be because the complexity it just too high to account and play test for all possibilities. For each mole you whack, three more pop up.

MMORPGs are about Character Skill, not Player Skill. That is, it’s largely about your gear and about the above mentioned imbalances. After those, then we might be able to talk about player skill differences, for all good it would do. The fight has largely already been won or lost based on classes, gear, and specs, before anyone ever hits a key.

Faction imbalances are impossible to correct for completely. At least, they are in the open world, which is why we have so much instanced PvP and warzones. This just brings up the question “Why not just PvP in a shooter on a 32 player server then? What do I need a Massively Multiplayer Game for if I’m only playing with 40-odd other people?”

Saying “this is why we need open world PvP,” just brings you back to the faction imbalance problem. You can nudge faction imbalances with XP rewards and such, but you can never really eliminate them, only dent them. One side will always be up on the other, so I guess it’s back to those instances so we can have a fair fight… at least by number of players anyway.

I don’t get why you folks don’t play Team Fortress 2 or something. It’s well balanced and there’s gear. And no, I don’t work for anyone in the gaming industry. I’m just genuinely puzzled. MMORPGs provide such a terrible PvP experience I’m baffled as to why anyone would bother.

FFXI= best MMO ever (in my opinion)... and there was no PVP.

So to the OP... I concur

Team Fortress in a nutshell sucks and the many times i have played and if the other team had a bunch of better weapons/gear my team would get owned.

Without PVP any MMO is just, boring. Without even the threat of the opposing faction it gets very stale. And this is Star Wars. The whole story is based around a battle between two sides.

It doesn't have to be balanced, it doesn't have to be epic, but it needs to be there.