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1.1.2 PvP bag changes.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
1.1.2 PvP bag changes.
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

Volnoxiom's Avatar

02.02.2012 , 12:48 PM | #221
Quote: Originally Posted by Kllashaa View Post
I agree completely. That's why I think it's important that they add centurion bags, and adjust the bags so that they give both comms and a RNG token for the corresponding gear type. That means they'll have to add BM comms into the game, too.

This way, (1) the bags will be more logical (I open a champion bag, I get champion comms and maybe a free champion gear piece. I open a BM bag, I get BM comms and maybe a free BM gear piece), (2) 50s can get into centurion gear quicker and (3) they don't have to nerf champion bags.
Yep exactly!

Hehe.. Well. All we can do Is hope!

Kirin's Avatar

02.02.2012 , 12:48 PM | #222
Quote: Originally Posted by commandkill View Post
Step in the right direction George, This will give all the fresh 50's a easier start in warzones by stacking a bit of expertise whilst upgrading the difficulty of getting t2/t3 pvp gear because I think we can all agree the rate at which people have obtained champion and battle master gear as been insanely fast and definitely not intended!!!
Yet now all the people who got it quickly will still have it, while everyone stepping into PvP will be at a wall until Valor 60, unless they have Godlike luck.

Oh wait, there is no luck, there's the Force. The Force wants half of the galaxy to get nothing/duplicates and the other half to be fully geared. So this is just an immersion factor...

CapuchinSeven's Avatar

02.02.2012 , 12:49 PM | #223
Quote: Originally Posted by WarheartZero View Post
Like I said, people are to dramatic on these forums lol
Given the history of almost every MMO to come out since WoW, you can handle blame people for slapping their foreheads and face palming when developers land stuff like this.

These things are really not that hard to work out, but it's pretty clear why so many MMOs have fallen short of what they could have been.
I know chop-knees.

Tommyjc's Avatar

02.02.2012 , 12:50 PM | #224
Quote: Originally Posted by ReRuined View Post
Really Bioware? You just don't get it.

So, to fix the issue, you are going make everyone that isn't 50 yet or just hit 50 so far behind, that they minimal chance to succeed. This change will make a ridiculous gear gap for months. The gap between centurion and champion gear is too big for this kind of change. Not to mention, you are making it even more RNG dependent. We want less RNG.
This whole patch is just a joke tbh, but this change is the worst of them all, just awful

Stongrel's Avatar

02.02.2012 , 12:51 PM | #225
Quote: Originally Posted by WarheartZero View Post
Like I said, people are to dramatic on these forums lol
There's nothing dramatic about it. I'm stating facts. Subscriptions and active players are already plummeting (happens with every new mmo). Fewer and fewer people are logging on, for various reasons, pvp being one of them. What will ultimately make this a successful mmo in the long term is BW making correct changes within the first 6 months to retain subs, then drawing in new subs with a vastly improved game with new content. If they don't, they'll bleed out and it'll become another Warhammer, etc.

You state this will all be forgotten in a couple months. History states otherwise.

SWImara's Avatar

02.02.2012 , 12:52 PM | #226
Quote: Originally Posted by thanealpha View Post
The real problem is you can't give away gear based on rank only because you've done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to remove valor farming from the game.

If people couldn't just farm for their ranks via collusion and zerging every day you could just award fixed pieces at specific ranks. It'd be 100% fair and predictable and there'd be no reason to complain.

Instead you're forced to make people run warzones for their bags in order to get gear.

In my opinion the whole system is backwards and rewards have become more important than gameplay and it's a sad sad state of affairs to be in if the sustained success of the game is a goal.

"Bonus valor" > the kill amount.
ALL players who tag a kill getting 100% of the reward.
Clickie objectives = a kill found in ONE location on the map.
7-10 people quitting a warzone on one side over and over and over.
Majority of queues during primetime dropping players into losing warzones.
Lopsided populations, lopsided ranks, lopsided gear.
Virtually no reward for sticking out a losing warzone.
NO punishment for AFKing or quitting, repeatedly.

What's the mission statement of PvP in this game?

"We'd like everyone to zerg or be zerged and metagame non-stop for their gear rewards until they hit max gear then move on to another game."

It seems that way to me.
I appreciate the above, I enjoy the hell out of this game's PvP, but the systems designed around/supporting PvP seem pretty terribly thought out. Worse yet its been long enough now that future fixes just build on an already damaged system. Of course things are fixable, but really at the moment the way valor is handled seems something of a joke. Worse yet it seems best not to say anything about it and to just join a farming crew to pump your valor since nothing is going to be done after the fact to make ranks mean much.

Quote: Originally Posted by Nowyourdead View Post
Pretty sad that the community has to give Devs ideas on how to create and manage their own game. It's a sad sad time to be a Bioware developer - you should be ashamed - I know I am ashamed for you.
O.o so ignoring feedback on the forums is bad, but using feedback from the forums is bad too?

DarthMithran's Avatar

02.02.2012 , 12:53 PM | #227
Some people will continue to complain no matter what the changes are.

Centurian gear will be acquired much more quickly by new 50s giving them much needed expertise. This gear can be re-modded with higher level mods acquired from pve. I reached rank 60 a couple of days ago and still had several pieces of cent gear that I re-modded. Re-modded cent gear is almost equivalent to champ gear.

If you're one of those people that say "I only pvp, screw pve" then by the time you hit 50 you'll probably be close to valor rank 50 if not above and you'll be rank 60 in a couple of weeks or less.

What this will eliminate is the lotto winners that open their first 20 champion bags and have full champ set as well as people with Battlemaster title still missing several champ items.

I know several people that have been Battlemaster for a while and still only have 1 piece of Battlemaster gear (excluding the earpiece and implants that you can buy) because of the limited quantity of BM bags you can acquire and the low probability of them containing tokens.
This change will ensure that everyone > rank 60 will be able to quickly acquire champ set while slowly acquiring their BM set, while everyone < rank 60 will quickly get centurian gear with a small chance at getting a champ item.

They're basically making the reward for grinding to Battlemaster much more tangible as you'll be able to quickly acquire better gear while slowly acquiring the best pvp gear.

RolyartNala's Avatar

02.02.2012 , 12:54 PM | #228
Quote: Originally Posted by Ashane View Post
I'm unsure if Bioware even plays this game sometimes.

I mean, I know they say they do... but they make this sound like a buff.

Really? The issue wasnt the cent coms from champ bags or the champ coms from BM bags.. both are equally useless. The issue is the item tokens not dropping.
This is obviously meant to be a long-term fix to the overall system---bypassing Tier 1 PVP gear and going straight to Tier 2 IS a problem. The number of current 50s in full champ/BM gear is relatively small, so by fixing this now they adjust the path of progression for the overall population of current and (the much, much larger population) of future lvl 50 PVPers. It's a smart move, but it's damage control.

Listen, as people level new characters, start over on new servers, leave the game and so forth, the small number of full BM powerhouses will equalize between old school BMs and newer players. This isn't an issue.

I'm excited for this change. This means that instead of hoping for RNG Tier 2 gear, I'm getting guaranteed Tier 1 with the occasional Tier 2 surprise. I support this.

Saberolson's Avatar

02.02.2012 , 12:55 PM | #229
Quote: Originally Posted by GeorgZoeller View Post
Let me just point this out, since there's confusion about it.

The 1.1.2. bag changes have reduced the RNG element on drops DRAMATICALLY. Exactly what you guys asked for.

Instead of hoping to get specific item tokens, you now get (more) commendations that you can turn into an item of your choice. That is a lot more deterministic and reliable than opening bags and hoping for a token.

-- Georg
Seriously?? This is just mind blowing to see this response. Its like talking to someone who is dead set on a subject(despite mounting evidence that they are wrong), then you give them many great reasons why their idea is crap, so they come back with this twisted version of what you said as their new justification.

Yes people wanted less RNG.......on the champion gear!! Noone has ever cared about the horribly itemized centurian gear. The new change just makes it easier to gear our companions. You now have a tier of gear, that will be even harder to get than it was now, until you reach battlemaster, at which point the next tier opens up....WHAT? That makes zero sense.

Why is it so hard to comprehend the idea of 3 speperate tiers based on your valor rating, 1-40 you can get centurian bags, 50+ you can get champ bags, 60+ you get BM bags? Each one has appropriate commendations. If you want to put RNG into that system than im fine with it. But grinding all the way to BM, without a reliable way to get champion gear, is so *** backwards. This is of course only a problem because of the poor secondary stats on the centurian gear.

GabeAmatangelo's Avatar

02.02.2012 , 12:56 PM | #230 Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread. Next  
Quote: Originally Posted by GeorgZoeller View Post
Let me just point this out, since there's confusion about it.

The 1.1.2. bag changes have reduced the RNG element on drops DRAMATICALLY. Exactly what you guys asked for.

Instead of hoping to get specific item tokens, you now get (more) commendations that you can turn into an item of your choice. That is a lot more deterministic and reliable than opening bags and hoping for a token.

-- Georg
It's obvious from comments here that the patch note is not specific enough, so we'll get it updated before the patch goes to the live servers. Here are some specifics:

Champion Bags now always contain 15 Centurion Commendations AND 7 Champion Commendations. Battlemaster Bags now always contain 15 Champion Commendations. So Centurion gearing up progression for new level 50s is increased significantly and Champion gearing up progression will be steady.

We do still intend on adding more intro level 50 PvP items as well as change how Battlemaster Commendations operate toward the same 'steady' goal. It's just the scope of that change was more than could be done in a weekly patch as it included vendor changes, conversions to existing commendations on players already, etc.

That being said, the current interim 'gearing up' system will change significantly when we introduce Ranked Warzones (aiming for Game Update 1.2). Stay tuned for more details on that.

- Gabe
Gabe Amatangelo
Principal Lead PvP, Flashpoints and Operations Designer