BioWare+Mythic: A SWTOR review

so if something is broke but not the main focus of the game i SHOULDN'T bring it up? that's about as dumb as your whole rageface post...oy.

i wonder if the lack of ability is hardware(infrastructure) or software(coding) wise.

Someone posts a short review = You need to give examples.
Someone posts a long review = I can't read that much.
Someone posts a review at all= We hate you, go away.


This community is just.....ugh, I'm lose for words.

Good review TC, I think you hit most of the issues with the game and the good things as well.

Well, seeing that 9 of the top 20 servers (in terms of population) are PvP or RP-PvP, it would seem that many other players don't share the same opinions as you.

http://www.torstatus.net/shards/us/stats

As it stands, there are A LOT of people who enjoy PvP (even those on PvE servers!) so it would behoove Bioware to fix/enhance the PvP experience.

I agree that the leveling experience, art, character design and story are all top notch.

A) The UI is functional and gets the job done. BW said before release that they want to get a Combat Log into the game and just couldn't get it done before release. The scrolling combat text works sufficiently in the interim to give you an idea of your damage output and damage intake.

B) The loading screens aren't a big deal either. Travelling from one planet to another in this game is still faster than taking a 10-15 minute griffin ride in WoW. I agree that tab targeting could be better. The GTN interface isn't ideal, but to say it is nigh unusable is extreme hyperbole. The GTN is perfectly usable and finding what you're looking for is easily accomplished even if it takes a few more steps than would be ideal.

C) Compensation for server downtime? Really? Maybe its because I have a day job and don't play all day long, but I've yet to be unable to log on and play due to server downtime. Asking for compensation for server downtime is a joke. Seriously, if the servers were down for an entire day or two in a row, then maybe we'll talk. For now though, the server stability and up time has been nothing short of amazing for a newly launched MMO and is better than many veteran MMOs or online games (cough...LoL...cough).

Once again, I think you vastly overstate the issues the game is facing. The usefulness of many of the trade professions does tail off at level 50, especially if you're a raider. However, it is possible to make decent money through all the professions. Honestly, coming from WoW I don't see the crafting in SWTOR as being any better or worse than it was in that game. At the very least SWTOR has the excuse of being a new game for not having extremely developed crafting professions. I agree crafting could be better, but there is a great framework in place for future improvements, and your quibbles with crafting are easily addressed. You also failed to mention how great it is that you can have your companions craft for you and perform crafting missions while you do other stuff that is actually fun like run FPs and WZs.

An WoW was a ripoff of EQ and other predecessor MMOs, so what's you're point? You throw that comparison out as a criticism but fail to state what you would have rather BW done that would have been better. In the first part of your review you praise the narrative and cinematic feeling of leveling, but when you comes to OPs and FPs you throw that out as a negative. The narrative is THE selling point of the game. Its what sets it apart from WoW. So, you can't simultaneously praise it one minute and then bash it the next, and you can't say it doesn't differentiate itself from WoW in that regard.

As for the LFG system, its not great because no one uses it. If people actually used it, it wouldn't be a bad tool at all. That said a more straight forward LFG would be nice, but I disagree about the need for cross server grouping. Cross server LFG would kill the server communities in this game. God forbid you actually have to do some socializing in an MMO. If you're server size is the issue you should reroll or find a better guild to be associate with.

This whole quote is just sour grapes on your part. This game has solid PvP elements in it and BW has shown that their willing to make rapid changes to fix mistakes. They have also stated their continuing commitment to make PvP in this game great. I PvP a lot and I can say my experience has been completely different from yours on both Republic and Empire. You also seem to hold a grudge against Mythic that you're carrying over in SWTOR. If you're going to write an honest review you need to check you're biases at the door.

[/QUOTE]

Basically this is what you're whole "review" was going to culminate in, and anyone reading could tell where your "review" was going from the first paragraph. It started out looking like an actual review and simply devolved into one long QQ filled "I quit" post. Thanks for the diversion while I'm at work though. Was thoroughly entertaining to read and you obviously put a lot more time into your "QQ I Quit!" post than most other people.

PS - Can I has your stuff?

Or a PVE game, seeing as the end game PVE content is a total let down as well.

Its just that the PvP was so much worse.

Also I find it funny that you say its not a pvp game when

A) you can pvp from 10 and level to 50 pvping.
B) the games plot revolves around a war between two factions, which are comprised of heroes (players).
C) An entire planet is dedicated to pvp
D) The most numerous repeatable quests at level 50 are pvp quests.

On a general level, let me just say that while reviews are inherently subjective, I have tried to back up most of what I have stated with concrete references, and give examples when possible. While I disagree with several of your claims (see below), I do appreciate that you addressed the content of the review directly and specifically in your response.

For the sake of space, I had to edit down the quotes, but I hope I did not distort your original meaning.

The UI is minimally functional and gets some jobs done. Here are a few additional examples of places it fails:

• Buff and debuff bars do not distinguish which effects belong to you, so you can't tell which of the 5 identical DOTs or HOTs on a target is yours and needs to be refreshed
• Class-critical mechanics do not have sufficient visibility. "Combo point" classes (agent, smuggler) have to visually search the entire buff bar to find out how many stacks of Upper Hand or Tactical Advantage they have.
• There is no way to disable mouse smoothing or mouse acceleration.

As far as the missing combat log goes, it's missing, and thus I have reviewed it as such. A pile of overlapping red numbers that remain on screen for a fraction of a second are not a substitute, as they are inadequate to answer many questions about damage dealt and received. For instance, how much damage did my shield absorb before it broke? "Absorb".

WoW hasn't had 15 minute gryphon rides since Wrath of the Lich King (2008), and it's had player summoning since vanilla (summoning across zonelines in Burning Crusade, 2007). In 2011 (Cataclysm), getting to a dungeon requires no movement whatsoever (Dungeon Finder).

Even when long gyphon rides were a necessity, they haven't taken multiple loading screens and 5+ minutes of player babysitting since linked flight paths in 2005. A worst-case scenario involved one boat, prior to the 2010 rework of the old world to include permanent capital city portals.

Asking for EA to match the level of customer service of its largest competitor is not a joke, it's a litmus test. Nobody ACTUALLY cares about the $.50 that a single day credit is worth, but they do care very much about whether a game's publisher takes the trouble to appear sensitive to their concerns. EA/BioWare/Mythic has not done so, thus I count it against them.

In-game economies are complex, tightly interwoven systems. Except when they're not. TOR has no endgame economy to speak of, because there is simply nothing of value for players to trade at 50 that they cannot easily get themselves. Ironically, making BioChem the sole consumables tradeskill in 1.1.2 further encourages people to flock to it, since it's the only one that has even a chance of making money... except that everybody will have it and thus it will not make money. Bioanalysis seems like a good bet about now though.

Being a new or old game is irrelevant. The service is as provided, and I tried to review it as such.

This was meant as a summary statement of fact rather than a judgemental claim. SWTOR's PvE encounters are direct knockoffs of WoW's, for all the good and bad that goes with them. It is not the role of the reviewer to brainstorm a dramatic new course forward for the game, rather it is the reviewer's role to give feedback on the system as it exists.

I believe you have the cause and effect reversed with regard to the LFG system. It's not that it's a bad tool because no one uses it, it's that no one uses it because it's a bad tool. This effect then runs through a feedback loop until it reaches the extreme case - a bad tool supports a negative feedback loop where fewer and fewer people use it until nobody does. A good tool, on the other hand, supports a positive feedback loop where more and more people use it until everybody does.

I stated that the game has solid PvP elements, but they are massively overshadowed by the terrible message that BioWare is broadcasting about the future of SWTOR PvP through their actions. Promises are all well and good, but they're not action.

Are you saying that you enjoy Ilum on both Republic and Empire, and think that 1.1 was a positive "rapid change"?

Reviewing any product in an artificial vacuum of expectations is unrealistic and silly. This game does not exist in a world without history or competitors that set expectations. It would be an exercise in imagination rather than assessment of reality to evaluate it otherwise.

My expectations for this game were set by the performance of this studio's previous games. Given that it was two studios (BioWare and Mythic), I expected to get two games, and this bore out in the end.

Agree

The UI is inferior to other new mmos on the market. Rifts ui was much better and customizable day one. A combat log not being in a game at launch is a joke. Combat logs have been in every mmo i can think of going back to ultima online. Hello Kitty Online has a combat log. Also the scrolling combat text is not sufficient as it will commonly 'roll up' damage values (that is to say, if you hit someone for 50, then quickly hit them for 50 again with another power, or have dots rolling, you dont see individual values. Sometimes you will see 50, then 100 (50+50) as a bigger number. This is very misleading and inaccurate).

I completely disagree here. Going between some planets will see anywhere between 2 to 5 loading screens (if that planet as an orbital station you must go through). WoW allows you to bind your HS to any point in any part of its universe and get there instantly. Fast travel in SWTOR has nothing similar minus a 24 hour cooldown to your fleet/station.

WoW has fast travel portals to quickly get between different 'realms' of existance, or form its main cities to other areas of interest. Next when you include in your flying mounts, you can very quickly just get about anywhere in WoW. What you are not equating in to your gryphon time is that in WoW I can quickly travel to any part in a zone, where in SWTOR even when i get to a planet, I still need to queue up a 'taxi' system (same as a WoW Gryphon) to get to the specific area.

So I manually had to taxi out of my area to the main city on my planet, run through a loading screen, then run to another loading screen to get on my ship, then determine where im going, go through an animation, leave my ship (loading screen), leave the orbital station (loading screen) then run up to a taxi driver to get to me to my destination.

In WoW its more or less simple.
Is it in the same realm (outlands, northrend, classic?) then go to a taxi and make 1 click.
Is it not in the same realm? Taxi to your main city in your realm(or hearthstone, as most people bind to main cities due to convenience. This is like an imperial pass every 20 minutes), then portal and taxi. You go through 2 loading screens total (much faster ones as well).
Did you bind there? just hearthstone.

I disagree with you. Our guild was full of people pushing their professions and none found any profit late game. Who would buy a weapon barel from a weapon tech or armor mod when commendation vendors at that level give similar/better? You can also easily get upgrades from the PvE content which you can snore through.

And again, other 'new' mmos (Rift) had viable crafting out of the game that made competitive gear and rewarded players extensively for pursuing their crafting professions. If a no name company like Trion can do it with a tiny budget and only a few years development, how did BW with 200M and 5 years development fail so badly?

Because after the narrative, which lasts 1-49, you are left with a games design and content. A narrative no matter how good, ends. An MMO is about progressive character development, that is why people play them for years in lieu of single player games. All of the content in star wars that is polished/good is only available during the leveling process in the way of the plot, but there is no more plot to speak of at level 50. Your companions are only used at that point for crafting. For all its innovation, BW did not die in any of their concepts into the end game, so what you have now is a very dry experience that falls short of any other games end game. Many MMO's before SWTOR failed because they did not deliver an on end game. Warhammer had interesting pvp, but you get to the end of the game and it was dull and there was nothing to really do. Eventually they fixed it all and made a great end game, but that was after players had all mass left it. Just to remind you, Warhammer had GREAT sales out of the gate and everyone praised it as a "WoW" Killer, but it failed.

The current one is pretty bleh. And the remarks about socializing are just silly. Players want to log in and have fun, not whisper stranger and try to make themselves 'sellable' to groups. They dont want to be stuck waiting in the same area either. Right now the LFG tool requires you stay in a spot, flag yourself as LFG (Which no one ever checks) and then spam "LFG Hammer, LFG yadda yadda".

To take this a step further, why have auto queing pvp that auto arranges teams for PvP but not for PvE? It's kind of hypocritical to say its ok we have an auto arranging system for one facet of a game but not for another, and then defend the decision the way you have.

As far as cross server, thats absurd. Cross server LFG has remained fine in WoW and RIFT. In Fact it promotes people to stay on their servers and not transfer to 'high pop' servers to get into groups. In the old days of WoW everyone would transfer to "mega servers" while back water servers had few players and had poor PvE progression. Now in WoW (and Rift) you see more vibrant communities outside the mega servers, because there is no large reason to ditch your friends because you want to kill raid bosses.


I read his review and agreed with it. It was well stated, it was not childish and by no means sour grapes. I did not see a whine in anything he/she wrote, but I certainly see a sort of refusal of logic on your point, labeling anything you disagree with as a rant. Because of responses like yours, there is a lack of constructive debate on these forums. People cannot voice opinions without being labled as "trolls", "whiners", "haters" or "lawl WoW players" (which i think is silly since I bet almost all of us were WoW players for quite some time).

So your saying because his review indicated early his displeasure that the rest of it was invalid. Reviewers commonly refer to their conclusions at the begining of a review all the time. Watch any gamespot review of a game they gave a bad rating to, it always starts off with "xxxx is a game filled with potential but stumbles" or similar. And while they discuss the good, they also discuss the bad. How is that different form this review?

Honestly the inability for this community to take a grain of critisism without getting up in arms over their 'perfect game' is silly. You have people taking sides when in the end we ALL bought this product. People are not rushing to the forums to slam something they paid for, they are simply angry it isnt what they expected it would be. As customers whom are displeased of COURSE they are going to be vocal.

tldr tortanic sucks, mythic still can't design pvp balance.

and i'm still not getting credit for wz wins

Nice review.