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1.1.2 PvP bag changes.


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Just wanted to agree with most people about dumping Centurion gear. The damage is done now - just let champion bags give champion tokens and BM bags give BM tokens. Bump the number of tokens to 8 or 9. Gives a far more reliable way to grind out Champion gear. It will still take new players a few weeks of hard fought pvp to get solid champ sets, but it's much better than the kick in the face you're suggesting.

 

 

 

Alternative suggestion:

 

buff t1 pvp gear to be closer to t2's stats so that it's only about 3-5% lower.

 

That would possibly be simpler thinking about it.

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After 22 champion bags and only getting a pair of bracers and an implant, I gave up on pvp. This was last month. As a republic player its hard enough to get a win in WZ but I endured. But RNG is something I cant work with thats why I stopped pvping.

 

I only run operations and flashpoints now with the guild. We've been progressing into HM on ops and been getting my pve gear. I have enough columi commendations to buy 1 pc of gear but I got all my columi gear already and 2 pcs of rakata. Ive been running pvp and pve in the hopes to get my columi/champion mainhand. I play an inf shadow so the weapon is really important to me. Turns out, after many runs on ops, I still havent won one. Heck, 2 fresh 50s already beat me to it. Its RNG all over again.

 

Bioware, give us the means to get gear, even at columi level, with commendations. Knowing my luck, I'll probably get my weapon when it wont matter anymore and I'd be obsolete and have my spot taken by a better geared player. You dont hear people complaining bout the implant and ear slots coz ppl have a shot at it by working the dalies in ilum and belsavis. I was already burned by the bag rng in pvp, if it remains the same for pve, I might as well stop playing all together.

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You guys are missing the point. This issue goes beyond your whiny complaints that you're not getting gear as fast as the lucky Jones next door are; this is about implementing a pvp gear system for the long haul. Basically what was happening is the Gear Tokens drop rate was so high that people were getting geared out in Champion faster than what was intended so people were skipping completely over the natural progression of gear from Tier 1 and just expecting to immediately go straight to Tier 2 like they saw all their lucky friends doing.

 

The natural progression was obviously intended get Tier 1 (Centurion) gear from commendations with the chance of getting tier 2 (Champion). Then at the next stage get Tier 2 gear from commendations with the chance of getting T3 (Battlemaster).

 

Yes, this is going to hurt those people who just turned 50 because of how easily the first 50's farmed valor and gear but it will be better in the long run for the game.

 

^^^ This.

 

However Bioware should realise that their players are not stupid. It is insulting to our intelligence when the devs put out patch notes hoping that players would not be able to read between the lines.

 

FACT: PVP Gear progression in this game is too fast. Full Battlemaster geared players in 1 month of the game?? No one should have been able to get battlemaster gear until at least 3 months into the game. In fact no one should have been able to get tier 3 pve or pvp gear until 3 months into the game.

 

FACT: Valor rank progression in this game is too fast. Rank 60 in 1 month of the game? No one should have been able to get rank 60 until at least 3 months into the game. A system where you only get full valor from kills and warzones only when you fight players near or higher than your current valor rank should have been in game from the start. Fighting lower ranked players should have only given small amounts of valor. Winning a warzone should only have given a bonus on top of this valor.

 

What is sad to note is that they had these sort of systems in Warhammer. Despite the game being a failure, the pvp systems in that game did work. The pvp gear system there was also broken in that people could farm gear in empty city instances but it was months before they got the rank to be able to wear the gear. It is like they didn't learn anything from their failures OR their successes. Did your devs ever do a post mortem analysis on the game at all?

 

What you have now is a situation that people have gotten used to the easy mode gear and valor grind and any attempt to slow it down is going to lead to loss of subscriptions. Bioware has to bite the bullet and make these changes for the long term potential of the game. But they also have to be honest and come out and say these things. Players will be mad and some will quit the game. However a lot of the more rational players and other players who have not yet reached the end game will understand and continue playing the game as long as it is still fun to do so. Honesty is always the best policy even if it costs you subs. Admit you screwed up and take the heat and loss of subs and move on. The players who quit your game at this point are unlikely to be long term subscribers regardless.

 

My solution to the current issues:

 

  1. Put the blue lvl 50 pvp set back into the game. You should be able to buy this with credits as soon as you hit 50.
  2. Make the changes that you are suggesting to the bags.
  3. Put a valor rank requirement on the champion gear. Rank 50 is good enough.
  4. Adjust your expertise rating scale so that it soft caps at 7.5% damage and healing.

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LOL! Talk about the great divide, people are either:

 

Already kitted with great gear, and in favor of this nerf;

or

Not 50 yet, and dreading having to gear up once this nerf goes into effect.

 

 

Whenever a new game comes out I like to level up as fast as possible, because I know this is ALWAYS what happens- stuff is easy to get/OP to start, and then balanced into impossibility a few weeks later. Thank goodness I already have most of my Champ gear.

 

There's a REALLY EASY fix here: allow a 3:1 conversion of cent/champ tokens. And then a 3:1 conversion of champ/BM tokens. Problem solved.

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Let me see if i got this right...

 

You need to grind valor rank 60 ( battlemaster bags ) to start gearing in Champion gear. Except a random piece or 2 that you got on your way up to 60.

And then you will have to pray for a random drop of a battlemaster commendation from those same bags.

And those bags can be obtained at a rate 16 per week at most...

bad way to fix broken system

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I'd better grind my next guy to 50 before this patch. I've been enjoying some PVP and saving for 1000/1000 commendations to get 5 bags the day I hit 50 so the gap might not be too bad. With this nerf to Champion drops, I'm going to have to grind Valor from 30 to 60 before I can get anything good. :(

 

(My current 50 has 5 pieces of Champion armor at Valor 35, so the nerf is probably good news for him. If you don't have Champion armor pre-patch, you're not going to be getting it anytime soon.

Edited by Yozbick
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The way I see it is that the purpose of the bags is for tokens, with the bonus chance of getting a loot token. I'm not a huge fan of the completely random chances of a bonus item, but then again it's a bonus item after all.

 

I'll support anything to keep the progression pace slow. If I was fully geared by now, I would have quit the game already.

 

Well you are pvping for the wrong reason then. I think most pvpers do it for the challenge of competition. If you're doing it to collect gear then you should probably look at PvE because there is more gear to obtain and there are several layers of randomness in that.

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I'd better grind my next guy to 50 before this patch. I've been enjoying some PVP and saving for 1000/1000 commendations to get 5 bags the day I hit 50 so the gap might not be too bad. With this nerf to Champion drops, I'm going to have to grind Valor from 30 to 60 before I can get anything good. :(

 

(My current 50 has 5 pieces of Champion armor at Valor 35, so the nerf is probably good news for him. If you don't have Champion armor pre-patch, you're not going to be getting it anytime soon.

 

I don't know, you're chances at getting Champion pieces out of those six bags really aren't so great. You might just end up with 18 Centurion Commendations instead. At that point, you would have been better waiting for 1.1.2 and the 'Greatly Increased' number of commendations provided (rather than the 18 you currently have).

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Let me just point this out, since there's confusion about it.

 

The 1.1.2. bag changes have reduced the RNG element on drops DRAMATICALLY. Exactly what you guys asked for.

 

Instead of hoping to get specific item tokens, you now get (more) commendations that you can turn into an item of your choice. That is a lot more deterministic and reliable than opening bags and hoping for a token.

 

-- Georg

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Why are they named champion bags in the first place, if they give centurion tokens

 

This!!

 

Why in gods name is the gear with the best secondary stats, so hard to get? Why is there no consistant way to get this, but the other 2 sets, have a way? I dont want power and accuracy, I want crit and surge. I dont even want the BM gear. I just want the champ gear! So now Bioware tells me the only way I had to get that, is going to be even more inconsistant!! WTH!

 

At least the BM gear has crit on it, the damn centurian gear is complete garbage. I know they understand the mechanics they have created around this gear. They have built most of the non caster DPS classes around crits! And even a sin running darkness that purley PVPs is going to want a ton of surge rating as almost every single shock he throws his a crit! This change makes no sense. I have no idea if the other classes gear is so poorly done, but for assassins, the champion gear is the only stuff that has proper secondary stats.

 

Even with what they said about wanting to close the gap between well geared and undergeared, this makes no sense. The only thing that would make this work, is if they changed the stats on the centurion gear to make them valuable to people, rather than being relegated to the land of companion gear.

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Let me just point this out, since there's confusion about it.

 

The 1.1.2. bag changes have reduced the RNG element on drops DRAMATICALLY. Exactly what you guys asked for.

 

Instead of hoping to get specific item tokens, you now get (more) commendations that you can turn into an item of your choice. That is a lot more deterministic and reliable than opening bags and hoping for a token.

 

-- Georg

 

I think the issue is that 'item of our choice' does not mean centurion gear.

 

I find centurion gear a poor 'if I really have to' alternative to champ gear. The only way it seems to be viable for me is if I do PvE operations to get level 56 mods to re-mod it (or remod it with duplicate champ gear I can pull the mods out of).

 

I really prefer the current RNG-based system. I've been able to get 75% champ gear within 2 weeks, and under the proposed new system, that sounds like it's impossible.

Edited by StealthNerf
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So does this make BM tokens harder to get? The BM tokens are on a RNG system as well.

 

no it does not. as the patch notes say it only affects the champion gear tokens.

 

 

The number of commendations in Champion and Battlemaster Bags has been greatly increased, and the direct item trade tokens appear less frequently in Champion Bags. This change allows players to obtain PvP gear at a steady and significantly more predictable rate with an occasional bonus.

 

i wonder if most of the people crying over and over again have even read the patch notes.

if you have nothing else to do then complain, dont just talk about it and please do go play something else, all the reasonable players will be glad about it.

 

to me this sounds just like a step in the right direction. it makes t1 pvp gear really easy to obtain at a steady rate.

then, until rank 60 you'll get your occasional t2 item bonus,

and finally, when u reach rank 60 you can complete your t2 in any order you like and still get the t3 battlemaster items at the same rate as people who are battlemaster now did before.

 

of course this is not yet the perfect solution but to me it looks like they are keeping their promises and reducing the gear power differences over several patches.

 

keep up the good work bw!

Edited by Elhobo
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THis is Why BW lost over 500k subs in the past 2 weeks and will lose even more, SWTOR=DEAD in 6months Tops at this rate

 

This. A lot of us were really in love with a lot of aspects of this game. We were willing to accept the half baked product because we figured it would get better, but BW has shown a complete lack of competence at dealing with even a single issue. While bugs might be getting better, every single patch has created new and bigger gameplay issues, all of which with the community literally screaming at BW on the forums and getting absolutely no response as the BW developers march inevitably to their own doom.

 

BW created a shoddy game with some real promise, but has only worked to make the game shoddier. This idea is absolutely incompetent. I unsubbed last week with the hopes of resubbing soon, but I just don't see that happening. This also makes me worry for ME3...

 

Edit: to the post above me, you're right, it's a great idea, except that it's far too late for this tier. All it will do is put all new 50's in centurian gear until they grind out battlemaster while all previous 50's are in full champion, and the stat difference is huge! My 50 only plays the daily and he is in all champion except his LS.

Edited by Tandrius
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Let me just point this out, since there's confusion about it.

 

The 1.1.2. bag changes have reduced the RNG element on drops DRAMATICALLY. Exactly what you guys asked for.

 

Instead of hoping to get specific item tokens, you now get (more) commendations that you can turn into an item of your choice. That is a lot more deterministic and reliable than opening bags and hoping for a token.

 

-- Georg

 

Selective listening :(

 

Champion bags give centurion commendations NOT champion commendations. Are you saying you are also changing champion bags to drop champion commendations?

 

EDIT: The reason no one wants the centurion gear is because the stat distribution on it is horrible. Are you even aware of how different classes need the stat distribution to be on the items?

 

As an example, I play an inf specced jedi shadow. I like Willpower, Endurance, Critical Rating, Surge Rating, Accuracy then Power in that order on my armor. Please look at the centurion or even the champion gear for a dps shadow (the stalker set) and see how that gear gives me those stats. Hint: It doesn't.

Edited by TechMaestro
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Let me just point this out, since there's confusion about it.

 

The 1.1.2. bag changes have reduced the RNG element on drops DRAMATICALLY. Exactly what you guys asked for.

 

Instead of hoping to get specific item tokens, you now get (more) commendations that you can turn into an item of your choice. That is a lot more deterministic and reliable than opening bags and hoping for a token.

 

-- Georg

 

Yeah more commendations for crappier gear. Just what i wanted

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Let me just point this out, since there's confusion about it.

 

The 1.1.2. bag changes have reduced the RNG element on drops DRAMATICALLY. Exactly what you guys asked for.

 

Instead of hoping to get specific item tokens, you now get (more) commendations that you can turn into an item of your choice. That is a lot more deterministic and reliable than opening bags and hoping for a token.

 

-- Georg

 

I'm really sorry Greorg, I don't mean to seem rude. I'm really grateful you would come to the forums and post in the first place, so thank you for that.

 

However ... can you please show my some posts were people said they wanted more centurion loot from champion bags? Or where battle masters said they wanted more champion loot from bags?

 

What we said was "we want more CHAMPION gear out of CHAMPION bags" and "we want more BATTLE MASTER GEAR out of BATTLE MASTER bags"

 

You have responded by reducing both of those things.

 

Please don't use us in justifying your change.

 

If you want to make the change we are looking for, have champion bags drop 5 to 10 champion tokens, and have gear cost about 60 tokens. Make battle master bags drop 5 to 10 tokens battle master tokens, and have gear cost about 50 tokens. Make centurion something you buy with WZ tokens and 50 valor.

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Let me just point this out, since there's confusion about it.

 

The 1.1.2. bag changes have reduced the RNG element on drops DRAMATICALLY. Exactly what you guys asked for.

 

Instead of hoping to get specific item tokens, you now get (more) commendations that you can turn into an item of your choice. That is a lot more deterministic and reliable than opening bags and hoping for a token.

 

-- Georg

 

Georg, you are right that we want the RNG element removed/lowered but the problem with what you're saying is that Champion bags give Centurion commendations not Champion commendations. So yes, we can get an item of our choice but not the Champion item of our choice. The Centurion gear is not even really an upgrade over crafted blues with the exception of a rather small amount of expertise it gives. In fact, I have forgone replacing my last two slots of non-pvp gear with Centurion items because the amount of willpower I would lose isn't worth 28 or 29 expertise.

 

The big problem with the change you're suggesting is that there's lots of people that already have valor rank 60 and/or a lot of the Champion set. Now anybody starting the game new or starting level 50 pvp on a new character is going to be behind the power curve for a longer amount of time.

 

If you make Champion bags give Champion commendations and Battlemaster bags give Battlemaster commendations then I am fine with this change and would even applaud it. That's not the case right now though. Of course, then you'd have to figure out a new way to give out Centurion tokens but that's a smaller issue because as I said, the Centurion gear is not desirable anyway.

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I honestly think these changes promote a more linear and intended progression in pvp sets. The way tokens were before, most people skipped Centurion altogether. Or were at least only forced to get a couple pieces.

 

The problem I see here is that it didn't happen soon enough, and now a lot of people are fitted in Champion/Battlemaster, but the gap isn't so bad.

 

tl;dr: good change, bad timing.

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The bag system was designed by a monkey and a dart board.

 

Example: Champion bag give Centurion tokens?

 

Monkey with a dart board logic.

 

Secondly as a Scrapper the ONLY GEAR GiVEN is Healer and GS based stats.

 

Is this an attempt to just ensure you ruin at least one spec?

 

Every single piece of gear has a duplicate one, what is the point of them all being the same?

 

One piece of gear is not the same for every classs spec. Like I said MONKEY WITH DARTBOARD!

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Let me just point this out, since there's confusion about it.

 

The 1.1.2. bag changes have reduced the RNG element on drops DRAMATICALLY. Exactly what you guys asked for.

 

Instead of hoping to get specific item tokens, you now get (more) commendations that you can turn into an item of your choice. That is a lot more deterministic and reliable than opening bags and hoping for a token.

 

-- Georg

 

The removal of the random element is most welcomed and a step in the right direction, and will long term be the right solution. (Though seriously, just eleminate the random element and get rid of the small chance to get a superior token altogether)

 

The problem here however is that warzones are already filled with players who have easily gathered Champion level gear, many of which mainly due to having high amounts of luck with getting tokens from their Champions bags. Making Champion gear mostly unavailable to newer level 50s while letting these players retain theirs simply creates an unfair gear advantage to those who were lucky, and which will take a long time to resolve. (Until hitting Valor 60)

 

This wouldn't be all that bad (but a little annoying) if this was PvE gear we are talking about. However in PvP we will be constantly going up directly against players who have been given a long term gear advantage simply due to being lucky if this change is implemented in its current format.

Edited by SWB-NL
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Bioware's incompetence on this issue is, quite frankly, frightening...

 

PvPers: "We don't like the RNG/Luck system."

 

Solution: "Okay. You will now be able to gain more crappy gear at a more steady rate, but need even MORE RNG/Luck to get anything good."

 

PvPers: "Yeeeah, so when's Guild Wars 2 coming out?"

 

it comes out tomorrow you can leave now and let us enjoy the game :p

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Dear Georg,

 

Please stop reading the official forums. People have much more balanced opinions and reasonable issues with the game elsewhere like on reddit. Although the wow forums were worse in my experience.

 

everyone who is complainingg.

 

The Good part of the patch: MUCH more steady progress..makes you actually get centurion gear at a reasonable and satisfying rate, so that its not useless and you don't feel "oh everyone has champ gear the only thing of worth getting from this bag is a champ gear drop." The champ gear drop is supposed to be a BONUS not the expected reward from champ bags. Hopefully we get like 6 or 7 tokens per bag so you get full cent gear and maybe 1 or 2 pieces of champ. This is the completely logical solution, and its the solution I expected for quite some time.

 

The BAD and inevitable part of the patch will now create a huge gap in the the catch up time for people who already are BM and Champed up....but they have already said they are reducing the difference in these sets exxpertise wise gradually so just chill. Furthermore, full T2 PVE gear is QUITE effing good in pvp. i had 60% or 50% champ gear and got broken by a full Columni of the same AC (and im better than him in equal gear).

 

So stop this insane witch hunt and find your own ways to compete in PvP and stop asking bioware to do it for you. there are a million ways to be effective. I dont think you guys realize how literally dumb you sound by dismissing this patch without even sitting down and thinking about it.

 

I come on these forums like once every 3 weeks because of how crazy you all are.

Edited by ShifteeOne
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