Please, Don't Roll on Items for Another Class in Your Team

The reason so much loot drama is caused by group 1 is because a lot of us have been playing these games for a long time and that's always how it's been. In a group environment there will be drops that benefit certain players more than others. Because you are trying to tackle this task as a group, most players will respect other people's primary stat priority and they also expect other players to respect theirs as well.

The fact is, this way of thinking always works. People go home happy normally even if nothing dropped for them. Using the rules of the 2nd "camp" in this argument, you're going to have players mad all the time because some people got lucky and won stuff for their main stat priority as well as secondary priorities like companions and appearance when you didn't win anything at all.

With camp one's rules, it ends up "Well, the Sage won the sage loot. Cool". With camp two, it's "Well, the sage won the sage loot, the trooper loot AND the Guardian loot! ***!?!".

This is a fact. Camp 2's rules have never been the consensus in games like this, so they ALWAYS cause loot disagreements. Mainly because most people will pass on other's people's main stat priorities as a courtesy. If camp 1 is playing this way while someone else in the group is needing on secondary priorities, it's going to cause problems. To me, it's up to the non-consensus group (camp 2) to try to pre-establish their personal loot rules before the run. Otherwise, most people will assume that everyone is needing on primary stats only leaving the camp 2 follower with an unfair advantage that WILL cause bickering.

If you want to need for companions, say "I'm going to be needing on my primary stat and my companions primary stat this run" before you head into the flashpoint. Some groups will likely tell you to leave, because again, you're going against the MMO consensus, but at least you'll save yourself from being blasted in Gen chat.

You really should be more unselfish like others are. Your way only allowa players to better themselves for group play or rather in a manner that benefits you. Our way allows players the chance to better themselves for group or solo play.

I agree with the solution. But these threads have only served to highlight that there is no clear consensus. Both camps should commmunicate their rules or expect drama.

No, there is a consensus, The 6 or 7 people in this thread that have been arguing their "camp 2" side of things do not change that.

I think that many groups operate by Group 1 rules because there are people that get mad all the time about loot if you don't follow their rules. I may pass on something I need because I don't need it enough to suffer 20 minutes of arguing. I'm not sure I go home happy about it though.

But you will only hear the group 1 people haranguing people on general chat, so people can get the impression everyone thinks that way, when in reality most players probably don't really care very much and just want to avoid loot drama.

You were starting to make sense til you editorialized with the statement of "secondary priorities" and linked it to companions and appearance. If those things are primary priorities for someone else, then it doesn't matter if you consider it secondary or not. They consider it primary, rolled accordingly, and you just have to accept it. You shouldn't be upset by it, because I think you're sensible enough to realize their right to roll how they choose is equal to yours to do the same.

If you want to use the "my camp is right because we've played MMOs for awhile", I can certainly do that, having been an officer in two raiding guilds in EverQuest, an officer in another raiding guild in World of Warcraft, guild leader of two non-raiding medium-RP guilds in WoW, and now guild leader of my own guild here in TOR. My actual MMO experience prior to that, including raids (or their equivalents) dates back to Meridian 59 in 1996. And I can unequivocally say that guild environments aren't like PUGs, and have little real bearing on this discussion. Most guilds I've encountered and been a part of distribute loot in a fashion beneficial to the guild's goals because those same people are going to be adventuring together repeatedly.

It isn't the case with PUGs, where this argument is largely camped. There, once you're done with the instance, you're back out on your own again. You may join up with a couple people if you stay on the same leveling curve and happen to be on at the same time, but it isn't the same as a guild. So I'm personally tossing the guild argument right out the window.

The problem now arises that you're using absolute statements like "consensus" as applied to the MMO community, and we've never had consensus as a group of players. We also can't apply (very well at least) rules from previous MMOs that lacked features of this game that inform this game's loot distribution.

If companions weren't equippable, if we didn't have cosmetic items usable (by armor type) by a variety of classes who can make them class-specific with mods, then sure, we could use old systems reliably. It's time to evolve, I think, and realize we have a new paradigm here that's going to have to develop its own set of rules that incorporate the reality that any given piece of gear, due to how this particular game works, has legitimate use for a much wider span of players than in previous MMOs.

The ones that plan to institute drama if you don't follow their rules should be the ones to speak up. If I don't care what rules you follow, I don't need to tell you that.

So what you are insisting on, is we all play like you. And if we don't we get kicked?

On one level you are claiming the goody two shoes player, and in the next breath dictating that everyone has to play as you do.

One person, two faces?

Everything you said is pure speculation. EQ played for years with just eve tone typing /random to win or lose.

Why should camp 2 pre-establish anything? They are doing nothing wrong!

If I want to need for my companion, I press, 'need'. I do not need to pre-establish or tell you, or even ask you. In fact! It's none of your business.

You are trying to play your game and everyone else's at the same time. Stick to your game, we'll look after ours!

Setanian has a point here, Gal. Your posts seem to indicate a bullying style of play: "Do it my way or suffer consequences." At least in our camp, we say "Play how you like." We don't tell players they can't roll on something, we don't tell them their priorities are objectively wrong or hurtful to others, we just say "If you need it, need it."

This game really doesn't have to go any further.