Please, Don't Roll on Items for Another Class in Your Team

(Now Edited to address responses. See below about the refrain of 'you need to make loot rules clear before you start.'

Changed title in response to the variations of this:

Quote: Originally Posted by Truga

"No, You May Not Roll on Items for Another Class and Strip Out the Mods"
I can certainly do it. I personally wouldn't do it, and I'd probably be pretty mad at a person who did it, but that doesn't change the fact that it's perfectly doable.

The trouble there is confusing 'can' - which is determined solely by you - and 'may,' which takes others into account. The difference is the whole reason for this thread, and the title was accurate, but since it seems easily misunderstood, I've changed it.



Original post:
I can't believe I'm posting about item rolls, usually not a big concern for me. But poor claims hurt group dynamics, and there's no need for this kind of thing.

Today, a Sith Marauder rolled Need to get this
Cademimu Sharpshooter's Jacket
+34 Endurance
+38 Cunning
+18 Critical Rating

when I pointed out it was made for an Agent, like me, he said he intended to strip out the mods and trade them.

When I noted that the mods are Bound, he insisted that since he could wear it, he could roll. More surprising was that when he brought the issue to /General, a few voices agreed.

Most did not, but the others need to know that sort of claim is a party-breaker. This is clearly an Agent item - a huge upgrade in my case - and my next group will get a little less healing as a result.

One of the pleasures of running Flashpoints is the chance to get gear suited to you. If it's better suited to someone else, leave it for them.




Edit: Responses to the Peanut Gallery

That approach hurts your whole team, including you.
If I think that way, too, each FP run will improve our stats only half as often. I'll end up with your Marauder item and you with the Agent jacket as often as the other way, and we'll be no stronger for it.
If the rest of the team responds that way, your odds of bettering your abilities drop to a quarter. Grabbing 'because I can' is a losing standard.

It's definitely best to run with friends. Like a lot of players, I find I need to reach out further for some missions, and that usually turns out well, in part because our community expects players to be considerate of their teammates.


It's not your fault when someone acts without consideration, even if you didn't give them guidelines ahead of time.

Clarifying loot rules may be a wise practice (on p. 71, Caille recommends a 'loot macro'). But not doing so doesn't make poor behavior your fault. And a loot-grabberwon't be banned or punished by Bioware.

The kind of person who would take such a thing (really: a Cunning item, for a Marauder?) would need such detailed loot rules (Can you roll on item that increases secondary but not primary stats? Vice-versa? An item you already have but with mods you want?) that you'll never address them all. If you find discussing loot rules works for you, great, but don't ignore the value of community expectations.






My hope? A class-based rolling system would be nice (and, if an option, hugely popular), but introducing it takes more developer time than the ability to trade a BoP item within a team for a limited period. That option that won't deter the defiantly selfish but would help in many other cases.

Until then, here's to a community that follows Wheaton's Law. Interpretations will differ, but it surely has something to do with respecting others, beyond 'you look after your interests and I'll look after mine.' Part of good teaming is looking after each other.

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And so begins iteration 6 of this thread.

Same old people - start your same old arguments.

Actually it doesn't require very complicated rules at all. You roll for what you want, I roll for what I want and if we disagree and both want the same thing -- the dice decide.

EDIT: There is an obvious corollary rule that I guess isn't so obvious to some: If I can't use the item in some way, I am not going to roll for it.

indeed

Your conclusion doesn't follow from your premise. Allowing people to define their own need doesn't make the greed button any more or less necessary; the people who want to be able to use need to declare their desire to use the item and greed to indicate their desire to sell the item would like to still be able to do that, regardless of how they define need.

(I was editing when the last thread closed)

EDIT:

Personally I think your line of argument here smacks of the same sort of entitlement that people are showing when they are saying "you can't roll on that, it's my gear".

I'm fine with people defining their own need, and each of us rolling need as we choose, and greed when we don't feel like it's an item we "need". I'm fine with just having a chance at the items I want; I don't feel entitled to specific items, and am not worried about getting my "fair share" just my "fair chance".

The only way I can see your argument working is if you want to force everyone else into a situation where you feel justified always rolling, so that you get your fair share. In that case, I can see where you might want to remove the greed button, since you wouldn't be planning on using it.

Only 6?

Or we can continue the ones that were in progress.

This can be summed up as

Main specc rolls

Off specc rolls

If you only will or can be using that gear for when soloing on companions that should be counted as off specc roll

If you will and can use that gear and it is for youre role that you joined the group as then it is a need role.

Hmm.

Why not just change the TEXT on the Greed button to: "I wish to sell this" button. It seems you either truly need the item or you're just going to sell it. So renaming it might make things easier for people to deal with mentally (a psychological thing).

And also make an actual button for "Pass" instead of hoping/relying on people to click the X in the corner.

Maybe these changes would need to exist in concert with other suggestions, not just by themselves.

I'm not sure of what an "off specc" roll is but how you are going to use your loot shouldn't matter to anyone in the PUG, since you probably won't be playing with them again until you have outleveled the loot. If I am going to be soloing next, why shouldn't I be looking to upgrade my soloing ability? What business is it of yours?

If you are in a long-term group and planning to focus only on grouping, then you probably can work out some loot rules that work for you for that group.

If am going to solo next, since I will be using my loot for soloing, I shouldn't be able to roll on anything at all? What if I am going to be doing a flashpoint next with my friend and our companions? What business is it of yours what I am going to do next?

Good ideas.