Please, Don't Roll on Items for Another Class in Your Team

Only if you dictate that certain ways of acquiring items are unacceptable. A lot of people have actually done this throughout the discussion: "You can't roll need for a companion in a Flashpoint, you can gear them solo!"

You could certainly claim it, but that wouldn't make it valid. It's a "You're playing wrong" argument, which is invalid on its face. More and more I'm thinking that's the core of this disagreement from your side, if not yours personally - people who play solo, or with companions, or value appearance over stats, are just playing wrong, and therefore their needs are inferior and don't actually qualify as "needs". Galb has explicitly said as much, as have numerous others.

And honestly, if that's the core of someone's argument, then they can go take a flying leap. You can play however you want, but I'm not about to let you dictate to me or my family how we play. I've dealt with people like that since the very beginning of MMOs, and I think they're nothing but a horribly destructive drain on the community.
What edge would that be? I only roll on stuff I need. I expect you to do the same, and will actively encourage it. If I roll on something for stats and you pass on it because someone in the last run screamed at you for that, I'll tell you to roll on whatever you want. I'm not sure how that's consistent with me trying to get some mythical edge. I don't keep score on who gets more loot on a run, unlike Galb, who seems very, VERY concerned about it.

Over and over again your side of this argument tries to portray the opposite side as nothing but a bunch of greedy gits who will roll on everything. NOBODY in this debate has actually said that we'd do that. Many have laid out exactly what they would roll on, and all of us have said explicitly on multiple occasions that we'd encourage people to roll by the same standards - what they believe they could use. How is that an edge?

What are you talking about?

you asked for preference. I gave it. Beyond that, I'm pointing out that you're oversimplifying so much that no actual meaningful conclusion can be drawn from the scenarios you're laying out.

You're vastly oversimplifying the chances at various pieces of loot.

Assuming an even distribution of items is a gross oversimplification; that alone is enough to make any conclusion you're drawing about the relative values of the loot systems invalid.

This is not true. If we go with your scenario, I will roll need on whichever piece equates to my class. Again, in your scenario, the other 3 should pass, they by giving it to me.

Going with the 'need' what you 'need'. And assuming the other 3 also do the same, it is indeterminable what the loot distribution will be.

Again, If I go with your method, and everyone is doing the same thing, needing only on their class piece then in fact there is no need for rolls at all. Justh and them to who-ever best suits the piece. And also, you have previously agreed that you each are going to get some loot.

It is never like that. I have been in many groups where abiding by the NBG rule and the healer gets the piece he was looking for and suddenly has to go do his homework.

You are correct that if we all know each other and have agreed we're staying til it's done, A works best, but in fact is not needed anyway.

On a pug, I know no-one, so I'm going to roll whatever best suits my chances of getting loot. And I expect nothingness from anyone else.

Yes, it's harsh, but it's also true. Running with guilds will always work better than PuGs.

Nobody's said you cannot roll. They have asked you do dial back your definition of need.

People have conflicting interpretations of it's implimentation. I'd say that hardly makes it "implicit" ..by my interpretation it means class only.

It removes all the differing interpretations and sets us all firmly on the same ground.

I've heard many on your side argue that one can do whatever they want with thier winnings ..I'm glad you approve.

Shouting. That's why nobody takes you seriously. It indicates something else too but I don't want to go that far yet.

Point is that EQ wasn't first.

Wow, I seriously can't even keep up with this thread

I will say this, though...nothing we say/do here is going to change the way people play in the game now. The only way things will change is if BW makes a change with the system. Until then, we're all going to be frustrated and angry with each other and the community is never going to get any friendlier.

We need BW to realize there is an issue and it's causing a lot of grief in the game when two people have opposite opinions over how the system should be used.

My post was a continuation, you missed the first half. If you read from the beginning, it will make sense to you.

Secondly, I simply, but that invalidates nothing. I am merely taking the expected value of each scenario in order to create a situation where we can work with the pieces in a logical fashion. If you disagree with that, I'm not sure I'll care to continue to explain it. You have to use the mean outcomes here. We aren't playing a "what if" game. Imagine we had metrics on every parameter - we want the average.

I might be amendable to that if I never play solo with just my companion for battle assistance. However since I do use my companion outside of group play I would like the chance to gear it up as well.

I should add that that does not mean I roll need on anything that drops. But if something falls that would benifit my prefered companion then yeah I would like a shot at it. And I offer you the same opportunity.

"Going with the 'need' what you 'need'. And assuming the other 3 also do the same, it is indeterminable what the loot distribution will be."

No, it isn't. As I wrote: it is the EXPECTED VALUE of the loot.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expected_value

Therefore, on average, you will end up with LESS output from you and your companion under Method B (as I've defined in my previous posts.)

A = Player Upgrade
B = Companion Upgrade

A > B
A > .25A + .75B

Keep reading into my second post for an explanation of why you and your companion are WORSE off when everyone rolls Need on everything.