Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

How to make operations a little harder


ZEUSx's Avatar


ZEUSx
01.30.2012 , 12:34 PM | #11
Completely agree with the OP.

We are rushing our new 50s (undergeared, of course) into ops because of the huge disparity between ranged and DPS.

The only way we have melee now is if their strength exceeds 1600 after buffs. Pretty unfair.

Soa and Karagga show the huge divide the most. Soa more, with all those damned targeted lightning balls and the mind traps that melee have to constantly run to.

DarkenWulf's Avatar


DarkenWulf
01.30.2012 , 06:25 PM | #12
Melee here, only melee DPS in our raids and also I'm leading it, Soa, I didn't even bother chasing traps the ranged were handling it fine, just used my self as a moving symbol for pillar to make tanks life easier on third phase.
Darkwulf - Assassin = Marauder - Wulfy
-Fade to Darkness - Legions of Lettow - Sponsored by Drunken Tusken Beer-

Addoexatrum's Avatar


Addoexatrum
01.30.2012 , 07:21 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Sujimichi View Post
Take only 1 ranged with you. Seriously, on our server we have an extremely limited amount of people we can recruit from. This has resulted in us having to run operations with 1 ranged dps, 1 guardian dps, 2 sentinel dps and a shadow dps. Even thought all the bosses are pretty faceroll, it does make everything just a bit more complicated. I don't understand why any guild, if given the choice, would take even so much as 1 melee class with you.

EV

- Annihilation droid
Ranged doesn't have to move when he does his cone stun.

- Gharj
Ranged doesn't have to move when he's doing his pounce.

- Puzzle
Ranged can just stand at the controls and click when they can. Melee has to run from mobs and back to click.

- Council
Only "boss" i haven't found any advantages on..

- SOA
Much easier to dps the mind traps, much easier to burst on the shield-down phase. Melee only has a charge every 15-20 seconds.

KP

- Bonethrasher
Much easier to avoid swipe. Much easier to see who gets aggro, since you're spread out more than melee.

- Sorno and Jarg
Ranged can dps both bosses, melee shouldn't be near the ranged mob.

- Foreman crusher
Much easier to dps the adds as a ranged, especially if they run through the boss or are near the tank.

- G4 B3
Much easier to dps down proximity probes, much easier to have 3 dps doing the puzzle since they can so much easier switch to the boss.

- Karagga
Mouse droids are much easier to handle with ranged. If there's a gravity well on the melee, everybody gets pulled in. Ranged can spread out more.


I could honestly not think of a single fight where melee actually has an advantage over ranged. I guess for us, this is a blessing in disguise.. Normal mode and the hard modes we've done so far have been laughably easy. (with the sole exception of G4 B3, awesome fight even though we lacked ranged, making it a bit harder)
Annihilation Droid- Sentinel DPS can roll cooldowns and not move when he does his crouch. Between Saber Ward and Rebuke I dont go down below 25% hp and with a Rakata med pack not even 40%

Gharj- Running out for 2 seconds for a pounce is not a big deal and most Melee have a leap effect of some kind. Technically as large as his hit box is you dont even have to run out for 2 seconds you can stand on the edge and barely back up when he leaps then go right back in.

Puzzle- On norm there is no debuff timer just let the ranged or a healer stand there and click on HM there is a debuff between clicks so you cant have 1 person spam it you have to rotate. Having the melee start it out allows him to just go crazy dpsing for 30 seconds while others screw with it. This is again no detriment to the group as melee tend to have stronger instant cast hits than a ranges channeled attack.

SOA- Tab and leap to mind traps, run back to soa wasting maybe 2 seconds before you are in range for a 10 meter ranged attack. Nothing really lost here and you dont have to worry about the enrage timer until phase 3 so your complaint on this boss is really pointless. Melee has very strong burst for the final shield phase, most of the time you can Merciless Slash for close to 5k or spam Blade Rush with a Zen buff for 2-3k a pop without any issue during this phase. Zen also lets you take half a second off the GCD for Blade Rush spam allowing a smart Sent to get in the full 6 Blade Rushes with a Bladestorm before Soa gets back up.

Bonethrasher- Stand in the middle and go nuts... his hit box is huge you dont have any issue avoiding swipe and just roll cooldowns when you get targeted. Joke boss and you dont even get hit for 10k the entire time hes focusing you on hardmode.

Sorno and Jarg- 1 melee on healer to interrupt heals while the tank interrupts his dps cooldown rest on the dps. Granted this particular boss is not good for heavy melee as the dps guy likes to aoe with that stupid flame thrower but this is still not a detriment you can put ranged on the dps and melee on the healer to avoid it. Still no reason NOT TO BRING MELEE.

Foreman Crusher- Leap to an add rip it up and go back to the boss... how hard is this? Again HUGE HIT BOX on the boss. There is still no reason here not to bring a melee especially if your Off tank gathers the adds under the bosses nuts so you can aoe slash and sweep while range aoes both them and the boss with you.

G4 B3- 2 ranged up top with a healer. Commando dps can just reflective shield and run through probes then get cleansed so killing probes is a joke, Besides on HM the middle button is a charge that makes the boss eat all the probes so killing them is not strictly necessary. Again a Sentinel DPS using Zen and Blade Rush can pop off 6 5k crits easily after burning the bosses armor and if held still can master strike for another 15k ish easily in 3 seconds. I still see no reason for you to be smarting off about melee being worthless.

Karagga- Force Sweep on droids to stun them in place followed by Force Quake and Mortar Volleys.... gee seems like this is a repetition of MELEE ARE NOT WORTHLESS. Especially since they can stun them all then just slash while the sage maintains the stuns, losing no dps on the boss for either melee or ranged since they are held ontop of the boss.

Now for the advantage to a melee over a ranged, Sentinel DPS can add a 15% damage and healing buff to the party for 15 seconds. I am not saying bring 4 Sentinel DPS because this ability is on a 5 minute cooldown but the ranged dont have it. Guardians dont have it. All in all there is nothing a ranged can do that a melee cant, the difference is that melee dps is HEAVILY gear dependant and the bulk of melee dps are to stupid to move out of cleaves or aoes then leap back in when it is safe. The bulk of them also do not rotate their cooldowns properly they just mash whatever they can when they can instead of prioritizing.

Next time you have melee questions try rolling one and figuring out the answer yourself instead of trolling in a forum with a bunch of other posers who have never played the class.
WHO STOLE MY PINK LIGHTSABER!?!

nschlan's Avatar


nschlan
01.30.2012 , 07:42 PM | #14
I dunno...my guild got server 1sts on pretty much every Nightmare Boss , way ahead of everyone else and apparently not that far behind the world 1st people, and we had an even split between melee and range. I fail to see the problem, you can't tell whose dps is better without combat logs and if your melee is good, why use more ranged instead? so fewer people have to think? especially awesome if you have 2 sentinels. Inspiration Rotation ftw.

Demarcc's Avatar


Demarcc
01.31.2012 , 11:01 AM | #15
Sentinals have the interupts down. Thats thier advantage I guess. That and between cooldowns they really dont have to joust much.

I can see adding some more utility to some of the MDPS to make them more attractive on raids. We run a couple of sents in HM's b/c throwing one on each mob that needs an interupt is golden. Of course that's mostly trash (KP) Jorg needs interupts too tho so they are worth taking there just b/c they have low CD interupts.

Sents are also very good for boney. Pacify is pretty OP when he frenzys.

MDPS do have some tricks, but I do agree with the general *feel* of the OP that melee do get it harder.

FaderSvea's Avatar


FaderSvea
01.31.2012 , 11:12 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by nschlan View Post
I dunno...my guild got server 1sts on pretty much every Nightmare Boss , way ahead of everyone else and apparently not that far behind the world 1st people, and we had an even split between melee and range. I fail to see the problem, you can't tell whose dps is better without combat logs and if your melee is good, why use more ranged instead? so fewer people have to think? especially awesome if you have 2 sentinels. Inspiration Rotation ftw.
Because if your ranged are equally good, they're better.

Cindikle's Avatar


Cindikle
01.31.2012 , 06:34 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Sujimichi View Post
- Annihilation droid
Ranged doesn't have to move when he does his cone stun.
Only one stun we have to move out of and he doesn't do it too often and doesn't do much damage. The main downside of it is that while everyone is running in and getting AoE healed, you're out of the group taking damage putting you at a much larger risk. I countered this by having my back to one of the pillars so that I'd be in charge range right after the knockback. But that was with 2 melee. As you need to spread out more than two will cause problems.

Quote:
- Gharj
Ranged doesn't have to move when he's doing his pounce.
This is more of a problem with the UI. I'm watching enough keys/buffs that looking up at above the 50% point of my screen is a chore sometimes and I'll miss the message. But again, if you become melee heavy it will quickly become taxing on the healers. I hope this becomes fixed when they update the UI.

Quote:
- Puzzle
Ranged can just stand at the controls and click when they can. Melee has to run from mobs and back to click.
For me the mobs never spawn properly. I'll charge them and it'll send me to a spot in front of the mob. Game says it's there, client says it's not. Not only am I running around non stop, I can't even properly DPS.

Quote:
- Council
Only "boss" i haven't found any advantages on..
A ranged can click the panel and start DPSing right away? Fights a joke anyway.

Quote:
- SOA
Much easier to dps the mind traps, much easier to burst on the shield-down phase. Melee only has a charge every 15-20 seconds.
I love being on the other side of the room when his shield gets blown and have to say screw it and finish the mind trap I'm on.

Quote:
- Bonethrasher
Much easier to avoid swipe. Much easier to see who gets aggro, since you're spread out more than melee.
We do have an "ease of movement" feel to us that makes this fight a little easier in that sense. Had an attempt on him where 6/8 of our guild was dead at 11%, a healer and myself took him down to 6% before he died and I was on my way to finishing him till I realized the guild released so I let myself die. This was all during enrage. Yes a ranged can do all of that but not while putting out full dps. This isn't a good example though.

Quote:
- Sorno and Jarg
Ranged can dps both bosses, melee shouldn't be near the ranged mob.
Good thing my guild is sorc heavy.

Quote:
- Foreman crusher
Much easier to dps the adds as a ranged, especially if they run through the boss or are near the tank.
I just stay on the boss, if the adds run by me I'll throw out a couple AoE swings. Although I find myself full of utility on this fight as I can give my group a 10% defense buff(helps tank) and a 90% accuracy reduction on the boss. Although a sniper can do the accuracy one as well.

Quote:
- G4 B3
Much easier to dps down proximity probes, much easier to have 3 dps doing the puzzle since they can so much easier switch to the boss.
Probes are not a big issue IMO. I take out the 3 on the belt while the ranged get the rest as needed(most can be ignored). Guess that just makes me DPS then.

Quote:
- Karagga
Mouse droids are much easier to handle with ranged. If there's a gravity well on the melee, everybody gets pulled in. Ranged can spread out more.
There were times I didn't even see the droids coming out because was so focused on staying on the bosses side, avoiding fire, staying spread out, oh no tank moved out of fire and is now closer to me now I'm sucked in yey better pop something that gives more speed so I can write this run on sentence.



And with that there was a lot of interrupting to do in FP's, but in Ops I haven't seen anything I needed to watch. So going from a Shadow Priest in WoW where I would never pick up my interrupt in a PvE spec to a Marauder when I have to teach myself to use it on cooldown sometimes then stop. It is an annoying mechanic but it adds something.
edit: Forgot about the twins. And he doesn't do it too often two dps can easily setup a rotation.

Overall I think the current Ops are flavorless and dull. Soa is fun as it was truly something different to what I've seen in MMO's with the environment. FP's have more into them and they're so jokingly easy. Most of the challenge of this game if finding how to get around the bugs.

I fully believe this game has a future. I do believe it will make it to the Bioware standard of their game quality. I just don't believe it will happen till March. This game wasn't ready, a problem every MMO I can think of has had. The difference between them all is the customer service(this game has little to none) and the speed of the fixes(not only slow, but half the time their fixes don't work it seems).

Tohrazer's Avatar


Tohrazer
02.01.2012 , 04:42 PM | #18
speaking as a Guild leader (we cleared all hard mode ops, soon to have all NMM clear) i have to agree i dont recruit any melee DPS, not a single one - one ones we already have i bring on raids grudgingly as they basically drag down the raids performance, thats how it is

as for the list you compiled, you didnt even scratch the surface

regards,
Guild Leader | Aggressive Negotiations
Negotiations With a Lightsaber!
3 World first Kills, Ex SK Gaming/Curse, played wow, swg, aoc, war, ddo, lotro, and the rest