WOW PVP Gear Progression vs. DAoC Skill Based PVP

Lol it took 4x as long to just grind to the level cap in daoc to pve as it does to level and get fully geared in wow or swtor.

Ha I didn't even catch his name. Hey bloody, this is BZ(Blackzorro). We had many fights back in the day.

When I finally left DAOC, it took less than 24hours to go from 1-50 if you knew how. Before WoW put in leveling buffs, it took just as long to hit max level as DAOC did. Nothing is as fast as SWTOR, but good luck once you get there getting pooped on with your 12k HP greens while you grind for bags.

DAOC, you hit 50, get some player crafted gear and boom, you were on equal footing as someone who had been 50 for 3 months more or less.

Couple things here about DaOC.

First - and most important - DaOC was designed as a PvP game from the start. There was never any mention of PvE outside of quests to get to end state. This was through out beta and retail. That is why it worked.

Second - there was a reason to engage in PvP - keeps to take, relics to take that gave bonus, and then down the road keeps to controll granted access to Darkness Falls.

Third - Trials of Atlantis is when the game designers caved in to subscribers who wanted PvE content. We had master levels, we had scrolls, we had better weapons, everyhting to unbalance a game that was already wobbly per say. PvE content introduced issues that we didn't see before. Master 10 level players romping the flow if you didn't have anything - the haves vs the have nots spread too far too fast and it broke the game.

I won't even go into the "new" frontier era but the bottom line is everthing up to, and including, Shrouded Islands was great but at the cost of PvP content. It wasn't ever about PvE. THAT is why it worked. That and of course alliances between guilds, portals with weekly totals, realm ranks, etc.

Everything since more or less has been designed from the start as a PvE game with PvP thrown in. Wow - your 2 ton monster didn't have PvP much if at all. Grind through ranks. Then battle grounds, then arena (season 1 issues anyone - my Paladin sure did reap those rewards) - and it went down hill from there. Wow subscribers liked the open world pvp but it didn't yield anything other than hours upon hours of fun - but no shiny objects.

Original AV required quests to get stuff done and summon bosses then factor in 2 to 3 day games - in come the cry babies and more changes to what you have today. Not saying it doesn't work, but I am saying is look at the amount of effort it takes Blizzard to balance classes each and every major content patch or expansion...and season after season after season we see the same issues within Arena's to where now they don't even let you obtain best in slot weapons in 2's.

Why - because you can't balance the classes...

Well thats fine but i am 100% sure the success of wow has NOTHING to do with it's PvP model.
WoW succes is all about PvE.

So you are right in that the money aspect is all that is important to owners of the game company.
Which is excatly why the PvP in these games bare minimum and mostly untested.

But when you ask players what was the best PvP available in an MMO very few will point to WoW. A whole lot will point at DAOC.

How about you move on so the player base that wants decent PvP here can get their voices heard and have a this PvP system something to point to as well.

Cant agree with that.

It was built with PvP fully in mind but it was not designed as a PvP game.
It was designed as an RPG MMO with a strong PvP element.

Nobody PvP'd on release and very few did months after release.
Hell nobody could touch the PvP objectives for long long time.


TOR has more practical PvP built into now it then DAOC had for years after release.
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Bioware isn't going to redesign a game that is already in retail from scratch to model it after another game. Especially a fairly niche one like DAoC. They just aren't, leave that dead horse alone.

Best thing that could happen is that they will make the gear fairly easy to obtain so that new 50s only have to put up with it for a short time. They can't just mail the gear to you, although some people would like that I'm sure.

Comparing to WoW doesn't work at all because the devs change their minds about how PVP in wow works literally all the time. In that game you have had a brutal pvp rank system that pretty much prevented 98% of the population from gearing through PVP. At first in Arena anyone could get any gear you just needed to save up your points, then they decided that some items should require you to be a certain rating, then they decided to only have the weapons require rating. Currently they have two categories of weapons for low and high rated players. During all that time how new players got their gear and what was and wasn't off limits without rating changed as well.

So comparisons are pointless unless you specify which patch you are talking about, cause it wasn't one specific way ever in WoW.

Chances are good that by the time rated Warzones come out they will hand out BM gear like candy so everyone can compete. Then people can stop hiding behind their bad gear as an excuse for losing, I can't wait.

DAOC is still online. If this blows so bad you should resub daoc and relive your glory days.

this pretty much.

btw u played camlann? my condolences. as great as daoc was, camlann was just stupid unless u were a stealther

daoc yes ur right about that, atleast at release. nowadays it takes 2 days from 1 to 50 in full gear on live from what i heard. but wow... rly took me 2.5 weeks to get from 1 to 85 and full bg s11 armor set + some arena parts. its just as easy as any other newschool mmo. probably easier than most.