Gear based PvP is amateur hour

This is an MMO. Go play DOTA, LoL, HoN, Any FPS etc. That is what you are looking for. BYE

First, as I mentioned in my earlier post, gear progression/character improvement is part of the fun of an MMO, at least for me.

Now I've done exactly 1 Flash Point and I have 8 characters 4 Empire, 4 Republic, and PvP on all of them. The highest two are 47 (republic) and 42 (Empire). About all I do so far is PvP and Quest.

Under 14 PvP can be painful (I've started at 10 or 11 on each character). If I remember correctly none of my toons got sprint or their shield until 14 and that is a pretty significant handicap depending on the WZ map. The lack of other talents like extra CC abilities can also be significant.

What keeps it interesting is when you get an opposing group with approximately the same number/level characters. The times when my teams have significantly more low level characters than the opponents we usually get rolled badly. Not to mention that many people just leave if they see too many low level characters.

And you don't need to be 49 to buy weapons with expertise enhancements that can be removed. I believe you can start at 36? It won't give you a ton, but you can get over 100 easily plus extra crit well before 49 if you are willing to spend the valor on weapons.

There's also those who would like to do open world PVP but don't like progression...

The thing is, you can have the skill game all the time if you just keep re-rolling around 40. It takes about a day to get another character ready for warzones. And in the event that they actually DO fix endgame pvp you'll have a crapton of near-50 characters with 1000/1000 comms and a champion bag and valor rank 49 or something like that and so on.

MMO should have both aspects to the game...not just grind. Go to *********** Asia and grind with all of them.

It would be nice if we could level lock. My server is pretty dead in 50's bracket.

It is not fun getting 3 pieced.


Gear is a crutch. It is sad.

pvp depth is often overlooked in mmo development also, and it is something that ultima got right 15 years ago. lets take a quick look at the different ways of pvping in that game way back then

1. criminal/murderer system (be a criminal flagged to anyone, be a murderer get red name and skill loss)
2. faction system (4 factions, could take over towns, dynamic titles, balance enforced)
3. player bounties (murder victims could post a bounty on their murderer)
4. guild warring (with website tracking)
5. order/chaos (a 2nd level of faction play)

All these were going on in the same game at the same time and all were totally separate. Now we get forced into one mundane grind for epics that are required to be competitive.

you're playing an mmo-rpg, the name of the game is character progression (through levels and gear). gear should matter.

i'm not saying the current system is the greatest, because it honestly sucks, but if you're looking for a game where you don't have to have gear, you're not going to find it playing an mmorpg.

i'm sure this has all been said before.

See now this is a matter of opinion and semantics. What is grinding? To me grinding is flying in endless circles gathering mats so I can create flasks/potions/etc. to remain competitive. Playing WZs or doing FPs to gradually improve both my gear and my skill is playing and is fun for me. It is the reason I play MMOs like SWTOR and WoW. (Note: I've tried a bunch of others but so far these are the only two that I've stuck with for any length of time.)

I understand that what I like may not appeal to everyone. But if something major like PvP gear progression, that is unlikely to change, makes the game unpleasant for someone why continue to play? If there are truly enough people that feel this is a game breaker and leave it will probably change and then the people who like this paradigm, like me, would be the minority and would most likely stop PvPing or leave.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion but remember that, by every estimate I've seen, only a minority of people actually read the forums and even fewer bother to post. So while I feel it is useful to make suggestions most requests for major change are probably an uphill battle.

If you look at motor racing, you sometimes see different classes of racing. Stock, modified, unlimited, etc. I wouldn't mind if we had different types of warzones for people who have different ideas of how PVP should be played.

The current 1-49 tier seems to be fine, that can be unchanged unless anyone really has an issue with it (I just started an alt, and PVP'ed 25 levels through it and didn't feel that the bolstering system was too bad)

The 50 tier can be broken up into

Stock League: Everyone is normalized to level 50 gear (cent equivalent or slightly under) so everything you see is cosmetic. Valor still accrues, you can still buy better gear for the other PVP leagues with your commendations. This is like football, where equipment isn't a factor at all since there's only a few standard loadouts to choose from (heal/tank/dps) per class.

Modified: Everyone can wear any gear they want, and expertise is ignored. Lots of people have asked for this. Since PVP gear is already better than gear most players have when they just hit 50. Valor still accrues, you can save up for your battlemaster. A better option for pugs than unlimited.

Unlimited: Like the current PVP tier, and the default for open world PVP. The modified league might pull a large population away from unlimited, at least until people start getting geared up past a certain level. Perhaps there can be valor bonuses to make it more attractive. This may also be a good place for premades to duke it out.

Why not PVP because it's fun instead of PVP to lose or AFK your way to a gear crutch?

Games are supposed to be fun, not work. Telling paying customers that they have to grind through 2 weeks of getting farmed before they can start having fun is no longer an acceptable business model.

Argue all you want, but for PVP in this game to work, people have to participate. Telling people to 'suck it up' for weeks fosters a negative attitude towards PVP and is ultimately detrimental to the game.

I'm curious to see how GW2 works out. If they handle it like GW1 then gear is irrelevant, and you can PVP immediately upon installing the game. An FPS sense of non-reliance on gear but an MMO style of combat.