WOW PVP Gear Progression vs. DAoC Skill Based PVP

Not everyone wants to raid, some people just want to PVP. Same thing goes in reverse, some players have no interest in PVE. This is why a game like DAoC will not be that successful is that you have to do both to progress your character, and there are a lot of people who have no interest in doing both and would rather have them more compartmentalized.

DAoC is for another breed of MMORPG player, and that breed is obviously not a big enough population to take a chance on. Certainly aspects of DAoC could be utilized in a game, but it is unlikely that you will see a AAA MMORPG that is just like DAoC.

I agree with the comments that PvP gear based on progression (grind) makes for a poor PvP game. It becomes very frustrating to face a pre-made all in top tier PvP gear that basically has more damage/mitigation than you. No matter your skill, you statistically are behind the Eight Ball, so to speak. I experienced it in WoW, WAR, and Rift. However, it's the only solution for games that have PvE raid gear progression.

However, DAoC had it's own grind. Anyone could level to 50 and get a decent PvP suit and go PvP, you had realm level and realm abilities (RAs) disparity to deal with. A newly minted level 50 RR1 would have a hard time vs. an RR5 or even harder vs. RR10+. Although, once you got a few RRs under your belt, you could find things more competitive, even if you were out RR'd. The golden age of DAoC was post-SI and pre-ToA in my opinion. Spell crafting made templates easier to make and there wasn't the awful PvE grind of ToA.

The brilliance of DAoC was 3 factions and world objectives that mattered (e.g. realm bonuses or DF access). As long as you have only 2 factions and instanced battlegrounds or warzones, you just can't have the type of dynamic world PvP DAoC offered.

interesting.
Not successful but generally known as the best PvP in an MMO ever.

No their lack of "success" was not the PvP model it was PvE aspects and other PvP balance issues that was their problem.

gear grind is what PvP games fall to when their PvP is going to die because the PvP game content doesn't inspire interest. But of course the gear grind can't continue.
Its a doomed to fail system simply designed to keep people interested long enough to make some money on the game.


PvP gear grind supporters complain that others don't like the gear grind because they wont do the work to get the gear when they themselves wont do the work to get the gear.

Don't forget stat caps, crafting that had value, interesting class dynamics (interrupts, etc), realm objectives, etc.

Hahaha so we can just ignore you based on that last statement.


DAoC was and is king. The issues that game had were manageable and could be rectified easily with some recent designs of newer games. PvP in other games like WoW and ToR is inherently and fundamentally flawed. That's the difference.

PVP "grinding" should be getting together with your friends, practicing/sparring, perfecting your build and play style. Rather then "I have gear because I did the same stupid repetitive task over and over again and now I beat people who are more skilled then me because of an unfair advantage I have..."

Daoc had a worse grind and a worse gear grind than TOR, and then they added in realm ability grind.

Daoc was a great game, but you're talking out your ***.

/R11 nightshade, R6 berserker, R7 ranger, R10 armsmaster, R5 eldritch

7 years and 320 days (24hr) played. find a player that knows more about daoc, i dare ya

It got better with the classic servers late in the life of DAoC. You could PL a toon to 50 in 24 hrs and get them geared and ready in a weekend. RR5 took another weekend.

Granted, it was a nightmare hell to get to 50 at release. I remember when there wasn't even much content after level 35 or so. It was rough at release.

Yep,i remember days before spind was itemized and realm points even existed.

Too bad you need to grind Bmaster gear, then full PvE set to strip modes, that's going to be a grind fest and cause some of the worst PvP you will ever see.