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What does the 1-49 bracket teach us about PVP gear?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
What does the 1-49 bracket teach us about PVP gear?

dannythefool's Avatar


dannythefool
02.01.2012 , 01:24 PM | #151
Quote: Originally Posted by Babyfood View Post
If the centurion set in swtor were easy to get then a lot of the problem would be solved. it is however not easy to get....
As a matter of fact, it's harder to get than the Champion set, which is also better than the Centurion set...

If we could buy Centurion gear for warzone commendations before hitting 50, a large part of the gear disparity issue would go away...

Torleen's Avatar


Torleen
02.01.2012 , 01:25 PM | #152
Quote: Originally Posted by Babyfood View Post
Yeah but if one team has brand new Nikes and the other has cardboard tied on with strings...


I'm a long time WoW'er. I am ok with some gear disparity. The top players, and more importantly, the tops teams should get something extra. The thing is that in WoW you could easily get the previous seasons gear or a lesser set from the current season and be competitive. If the centurion set in swtor were easy to get then a lot of the problem would be solved. it is however not easy to get....


I don't really see much of a problem with having the top pvp rewards be cosmetic and convenience features. I think people would still play wzs to get pro mounts or sweet looking gear to make your toon look how you want. How about a fleet jet pack so you can fly around the fleet :>
AND....

How about rewards in the form of RVR objectives that have a tangible effect on your faction?

How about being able to occupy bases like in RVR in DAOC that get your guild banner on them?

I will take that over an unfair advantage in PVP any day.
Want to hunt griefers/gankers?
Do you like to PVP, OR RP, OR both, or either?
Honor might just be the guild for you!

ImperiumAlpha's Avatar


ImperiumAlpha
02.01.2012 , 01:26 PM | #153
I don't think I'l do much level 50 PvP once I reach it. Probably start new character and play with them instead. Especially since grinding for an horrible looking Trooper Vanguard set is just out of question.

Lokai's Avatar


Lokai
02.01.2012 , 01:28 PM | #154
Well actually it shows that gear in and of itself scales at an exponential rate at 50 and that expertise far outweighs any kind of stat boost can get before you hit 50. The problem is basically two fold.

1: Champ/BM gear gives a massive stat increase boosting damage and survivability far beyond quest gear or even any of level 50 stater sets.

2: Expertise gives a flat damage INCREASE! as well as reduction and healing boost! so not only does the set boost there over all dps, but expertise further increases that, turning what might have been an ok hit into insane damage.

Combine that with the fact that bolster puts everyone at about same level at 1-49( mind you a level 20 will still get plastered by a 49 so very easily) and it is simply more fair. Thing is many hardcore mmo pvpers do not want a fair fight, even mention of " fair "sends them into a tizzy over they very idea! before the bracket entire situation was so fixable with bolster by SIMPLY making bolster give a flat expertise bonus of like 500, to offset the fact that low levels had none and you would have seen alot less complaints about end game pvp.

Issue right now is that expertise is giving more DAMAGE rather then survivability, and that is root issue right now. Rather then making it all about keeping you alive making your harder to down its actually just making killing lowbies easier, in fact it SUPPORTS killing those have no expertise by making them die faster,easier and with no effort.

At end of the day people are playing 1-49 because being farmed by champ/BM player isn't any fun, and its impossible to get dailys done because of this very reason. People dont want non-champ/BM's in there premades its a laughable idea! only 2 real surefire solutions.

1: Put all the champ/bm folks in own bracket, and let them complain about no ques all day long.

2: change expertise so stops boosting damage and put a BOUGHT/CRAFTED starter set gives about 400 expertise so difference between a starting player and a champ/bm player is much much less significant.
" Destiny is like a river...washes us along its ever winding path, the jedi follow its path drawn along it like lambs to the slaughter... but We Sith fight the flow of destiny, turn its course to our whim! Through this will we be the true victors of this war!" -Lokai-

Torleen's Avatar


Torleen
02.01.2012 , 01:29 PM | #155
Quote: Originally Posted by ImperiumAlpha View Post
I don't think I'l do much level 50 PvP once I reach it. Probably start new character and play with them instead. Especially since grinding for an horrible looking Trooper Vanguard set is just out of question.
I feel your pain. My Guardian looks like they could be picked up and dropped into WOW and nobody would know the difference.

I was just going to get different orange gear and put my mods into it but for some reason the armor rating was not equal. So I am stuck with shoulder pads that make me look like a WoW warrior.
Want to hunt griefers/gankers?
Do you like to PVP, OR RP, OR both, or either?
Honor might just be the guild for you!

Felene's Avatar


Felene
02.01.2012 , 01:29 PM | #156
Quote: Originally Posted by Torleen View Post
Ah, but you think you should lecture me into not voicing mine?

I don't think it is a waste of time to voice my opinion. Simple as that.
Lecture you?

Perish the thought I am just a concern forum member thinking somebody here is out of his/her mind by throwing a crusade on a pointless battle.

No pvp gear for pvp its like saying no pve gear for pve.

No gear progression for those pure pvpers since they don't deserve it just because you think its not needed for you?

Not everyone is you or agree with you, I am just going to leave it as that.
Do this ASAP, do that ASAP, fix this you *****, fix that you *****, *** is this? FAIL! I unsub!

Don't you people ever grow up?

Torleen's Avatar


Torleen
02.01.2012 , 01:30 PM | #157
Quote: Originally Posted by Lokai View Post
Well actually it shows that gear in and of itself scales at an exponential rate at 50 and that expertise far outweighs any kind of stat boost can get before you hit 50. The problem is basically two fold.

1: Champ/BM gear gives a massive stat increase boosting damage and survivability far beyond quest gear or even any of level 50 stater sets.

2: Expertise gives a flat damage INCREASE! as well as reduction and healing boost! so not only does the set boost there over all dps, but expertise further increases that, turning what might have been an ok hit into insane damage.

Combine that with the fact that bolster puts everyone at about same level at 1-49( mind you a level 20 will still get plastered by a 49 so very easily) and it is simply more fair. Thing is many hardcore mmo pvpers do not want a fair fight, even mention of " fair "sends them into a tizzy over they very idea! before the bracket entire situation was so fixable with bolster by SIMPLY making bolster give a flat expertise bonus of like 500, to offset the fact that low levels had none and you would have seen alot less complaints about end game pvp.

Issue right now is that expertise is giving more DAMAGE rather then survivability, and that is root issue right now. Rather then making it all about keeping you alive making your harder to down its actually just making killing lowbies easier, in fact it SUPPORTS killing those have no expertise by making them die faster,easier and with no effort.

At end of the day people are playing 1-49 because being farmed by champ/BM player isn't any fun, and its impossible to get dailys done because of this very reason. People dont want non-champ/BM's in there premades its a laughable idea! only 2 real surefire solutions.

1: Put all the champ/bm folks in own bracket, and let them complain about no ques all day long.

2: change expertise so stops boosting damage and put a BOUGHT/CRAFTED starter set gives about 400 expertise so difference between a starting player and a champ/bm player is much much less significant.
These are all some solid solutions. Good post.
Want to hunt griefers/gankers?
Do you like to PVP, OR RP, OR both, or either?
Honor might just be the guild for you!

Torleen's Avatar


Torleen
02.01.2012 , 01:32 PM | #158
Quote: Originally Posted by Felene View Post
Lecture you?

Perish the thought I am just a concern forum member thinking somebody here is out of his/her mind by throwing a crusade on a pointless battle.

No pvp gear for pvp its like saying no pve gear for pve.

No gear progression for those pure pvpers since they don't deserve it just because you think its not needed for you?

Not everyone is you or agree with you, I am just going to leave it as that.
It's not pointless to ask for a product to be improved. For you to attempt to "shame" me by personally attacking me for sharing my views while you at the same time defend your right to share yours is dubious at best.

Please feel free to "leave it at that".
Want to hunt griefers/gankers?
Do you like to PVP, OR RP, OR both, or either?
Honor might just be the guild for you!

Morevil's Avatar


Morevil
02.01.2012 , 01:35 PM | #159
Quote: Originally Posted by RycheMykola View Post
The BIGGEST issue is having 0 Expertise.

Introducing crafted Armor, weapons, and mods with Expertise would REALLY help out new 50's to PVP.
I agree.

As of right now, the simplest thing to do is remove the + damage to players.

Then they need to make crafted gear that has expertise. Hell they could just modify crafted gear already in game.

The one thing I don't understand is why it's so hard for them to understand this.

kivanos's Avatar


kivanos
02.01.2012 , 01:38 PM | #160
PvP in this game is extremely popular and people get very heated about it because they enjoy it.

Most of that PvP is done in the absence of gear disparity.

The argument that being a slave to the grind means you are just better is flawed. Every end user has different skill sets, learns at a different pace. I could spend 8 hours a day playing PvP matches, and someone else could spend 3 and we could be on the same skill level simply due to human factors.

I understand why they put PvP gear in games like WoW. I played the game since the beginning and I was there when the MCers started rolling wsg like it was nothing. PvP gear is not a measure of skill, it is a gate to seperate those who want to PvP more, from those who like to raid more.

No one that really enjoys PvP needs to be led by the nose to do it. There is plenty of PvP action at lower levels where there is virtually no reward you could not get outside of PvP (Xp, Credits, some minor gear)

However, this game has the most promising PvP system I have seen in an MMO. The bolster mechanic works amazingly well. Granted you still have an advantage over a level 15 if you are level 40, but the difference is not so glaring your chances of winning are almost nill.

I don't have a problem with people wanting to grind out PvP gear. Great, set up a rated system where you can do that. For those of us who would rather focus more on a pure skill basis make normal Wz's apply the bolster effect to adjust everyone to the same stat level just like you do at the low end. The tech is already in the game to do it, and it solves a lot of these debates.