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Make Mirror classes actual mirrors

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Make Mirror classes actual mirrors

Valsdad's Avatar


Valsdad
02.01.2012 , 08:32 AM | #751
Back to the top w/you
Overtrebel, a right and proper scoundrel

Barrechor's Avatar


Barrechor
02.01.2012 , 08:36 AM | #752
Apparently the Sage 'Telekenisis" tree is now an Identical mirror to the sorc version in that the final skill now does Internal damage instead of Kinetic.

Apparently.
Barrechor - Lv50 BM Focus Guard / Katana - Lv40 Scrapper / <Tarro Blood> - East Coast

Snarlette's Avatar


Snarlette
02.01.2012 , 08:38 AM | #753
not a class mirror issue but anyone used a republic fleet pass vs an imperial one and see where you end up? republic ends up out by the shuttles on the docks and the imperial ends up nicely in the middle of the fleet by the cargo hold in the middle near the cantina.

SeloDaoC's Avatar


SeloDaoC
02.01.2012 , 10:20 AM | #754
Quote: Originally Posted by Dhagaz View Post
Check out the GameBreakerTV show specifically the section where Taugrim talks about ability delays and how they seem to work in SW:ToR. The way this game works its not necessary for you to actually wait for your channel to complete before all it's damage is assessed. If you pay attention to your class (Empire and Republic) you'll notice that most classes with channel abilities have this same possible glitch. I'm not a programmer so I don't know if this is ment to work this way due to the no auto attack function or not. I just know that I don't have to sit through all of my Channeled abilities on any of my classes for all of the damage ticks to count.

http://www.gamebreaker.tv/brazilian-...republic-show/

The section of this vid where they address this issue is around 43 minutes into it. Taugrim himself has a very good site at:

http://taugrim.com/

I follow it quite a bit and find his input very useful in helping me become a better player in both PvP and PvE. He even has some post where he talks about these very same issues. I hope BioWare is reading. They really do need to look into this stuff.
Ive seen it, but it doesnt work like that for commandos atleast, our damage actives even AFTER the bar is finished, not during. grav round for example doesnt do any damage until the animation is over, actually a little bit after it.

Melee might be different

Also he has no idea what hes talking about when he talks about mortar volley vs dfa, making the same excuse and missinformation that every bh are using

greviouz's Avatar


greviouz
02.01.2012 , 11:09 AM | #755
This IS DFA when channeled -----
this is MV when channeled -----

red shows no dmg beeing done while green shows dmg beeing done
MV is heavily bugged as it takes 2 full bloody seconds for the animation to run trough witch a normal pvp'er can easily avoid because the blue republic logo is on the ground for 2 full secs before the dmg is applied
this is Unload : -------

while this is Full Auto : -------

green shows dmg

because of animation/getting shot at Full auto 80% of the time looses 1 tick of damage
i will admit sometimes full auto hits 3 times but its about every 4th to 8th time you use full auto

this has been tested out intensly on both my merc BH(lvl 50) and my Gunnery Commando( lvl 50) Both have the indentical spec
Hodake Carnage Marauder | Greviouz Arsenal Mercenary
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Kellindell's Avatar


Kellindell
02.01.2012 , 02:15 PM | #756
Quote: Originally Posted by greviouz View Post
This IS DFA when channeled -----
this is MV when channeled -----

red shows no dmg beeing done while green shows dmg beeing done
MV is heavily bugged as it takes 2 full bloody seconds for the animation to run trough witch a normal pvp'er can easily avoid because the blue republic logo is on the ground for 2 full secs before the dmg is applied
this is Unload : -------

while this is Full Auto : -------

green shows dmg

because of animation/getting shot at Full auto 80% of the time looses 1 tick of damage
i will admit sometimes full auto hits 3 times but its about every 4th to 8th time you use full auto

this has been tested out intensly on both my merc BH(lvl 50) and my Gunnery Commando( lvl 50) Both have the indentical spec
This is awesome, good work !
Remember Remember, the 18th of January.

Kellindell's Avatar


Kellindell
02.01.2012 , 02:16 PM | #757
Quote: Originally Posted by Snarlette View Post
not a class mirror issue but anyone used a republic fleet pass vs an imperial one and see where you end up? republic ends up out by the shuttles on the docks and the imperial ends up nicely in the middle of the fleet by the cargo hold in the middle near the cantina.
Anyone confirm deny this?

if so it just one more little thing to throw on the pile.
Remember Remember, the 18th of January.

greviouz's Avatar


greviouz
02.01.2012 , 03:13 PM | #758
Quote: Originally Posted by Kellindell View Post
Anyone confirm deny this?

if so it just one more little thing to throw on the pile.
can confirm this on empire fleet you get spawned in close to the cantina in the middle while on republic you spawn in the spaceship dock you arrive at when you go from ord mantell and tython
Hodake Carnage Marauder | Greviouz Arsenal Mercenary
Impetus Norvegicus@ToFN

ErrantMercenary's Avatar


ErrantMercenary
02.01.2012 , 03:24 PM | #759
Quote: Originally Posted by FichutheDude View Post
The animation are longer but the cooldown are the same... Same DPS.
Entirely erroneous on several counts. I will use the Mercenary/Commando disparities because I am most familiar with them, and I also feel they illustrate my point best.


1) DPS is a measurement of damage done after an elapsed amount of time. If the animations cause damage to register on the target at different times, that means you will have different damage totals at specific points along the time spectrum. Let's assume for this and all future examples that the BH and Trooper being discussed have identical gear and spec, and that they hit the buttons at the same time, and that lag is a nonfactor.

Ex: BH casts Death From Above at the same time Trooper casts Mortar Volley. DFA's damage is spread evenly between the three second channel, whereas Mortar Volley does nothing for two seconds, then fires two shells in the final second, and a third shell AFTER the channel has completed. So, for science, let's measure DPS at each of the one second intervals. Assume for simplicity's sake that each shell does 1000 damage.

0 Seconds: Casting begins. BH DPS = 0. Trooper = 0.
1 Second: First BH shell goes off. Trooper still animating. BH DPS = 1000. Trooper DPS = 0.
2 Seconds: Second BH shell goes off. First Trooper Shell goes off. BH DPS = 1000. Trooper DPS = 500.
3 seconds: BH completes DFA, third shell strikes. Trooper's second shell awkwardly squeezes in here. BH DPS = 1000Trooper DPS = 666.66


At every point after 1 second, DPS not only doesn't match, but significantly favors the BH. Tell me again which of these DPS numbers match?



2) The issue extends beyond simple animation issues. Full Auto and Unload are not the same skill. You can "push" a tick off of Full Auto by hitting the Commando during the three second channel meaning it will strike twice during three seconds. Unload on the other hand, always provides three shots. Imagine if your opponent had an ability that did 33% more damage than your version of the same ability. Furthermore, Heat and Ammo don't match up accurately. Abilities that cost 1 ammo generate 8 heat. Why is this a problem? Troopers get 12 ammo. 12 x 8 = 96. And yet, the Bounty Hunter heat pool is 100. Not 96. That's equivalent to 12.5 ammo cells. I know certain abilities cost 25 and 33 heat, and that they should, in theory eat up the extra 4 heat a BH has. So why is it a problem? Because the regen values round up in favor of the BH. Whereas a Trooper regenerates .60 ammo a second at top tier regen levels, a BH dissipates a flat 5 heat. If you do the math, .6 x 8 shows that they should dissipate 4.8 heat, not 5. A 4% smaller resource pool is one thing (there's a tax on high cost abilities to compensate) but 4% extra regen? That's an outlandishly strong advantage for the Bounty Hunter, especially over long sustained periods.



3) So what does this all mean? It's simple, really. If an idenitcally geared and talented BH and Trooper faced off and pressed identical buttons at identical times, the BH would win in every case except for scenarios where the Trooper got lucky crit chains. This is unacceptable, and not simply for Troopers/BHs, but for all classes.
Don't worry guys, my motorcycle safety course was three whole days.

Dhagaz's Avatar


Dhagaz
02.01.2012 , 07:27 PM | #760
Quote: Originally Posted by SeloDaoC View Post
Ive seen it, but it doesnt work like that for commandos atleast, our damage actives even AFTER the bar is finished, not during. grav round for example doesnt do any damage until the animation is over, actually a little bit after it.

Melee might be different

Also he has no idea what hes talking about when he talks about mortar volley vs dfa, making the same excuse and missinformation that every bh are using
Having been the victim of many a Grav Round and even several well placed Mortar Volleys I can say you are wrong here. I have taken damage from Commando's during the Grav Round animation. From the start to the end. I've even caught Commando's doing exactly what he suggest about moving on to the next ability before it finishes and I still got hit. Maybe my experience is the rarity; I'll start watching this more closely now since but your experience is not consistent with mine. I don't know what Miss-information there is about DFA. There is a pause between my activating the button and salvo's firing down range. That is the whole reason why I never fire of DFA unless the Pubs are being silly and clustering or I've stopped them with a Freeze Grenade, or my favorite when I run with a PowerTech and he AoE Carbon Freezes them then we each DFA the grp before they break CC.

Now what I have noticed lately is that instead of being pushed up into the air like I should be so all can see and target me (if you're smart) my toon has been staying on the ground. I don't have a FRAPS program and I've never used one but would be nice if someone could catch this on vid and report it. I've sent in bug reports because it makes it harder for people to target me yet I get the full DFA Salvo off. There is still a pause before my first Salvo goes down range but instead of going air-born I stay on the ground.
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