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What does the 1-49 bracket teach us about PVP gear?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
What does the 1-49 bracket teach us about PVP gear?

Torleen's Avatar


Torleen
02.01.2012 , 10:39 AM | #1
People are leaving the 50's bracket and re-rolling characters so that they can continue to PVP in the 1-49 Brackets.

Lets really think about what that means.

It means that people would rather do the PVE grind AGAIN then put up with being the equivalent of being grey mobs in WZs who's purpose seems to be to entertain no one but the people who are lucky enough to have more free time or unlucky enough to simply have no life who get to kill you over and over again.

It means that PVP is MORE exciting when your adrenaline is pumping because you are in a pitched battle with someone who does the same damage and takes the same damage you do and it really comes down to quick thinking, reflexes and strategy that you EARNED through practice rather then because you have a statistical advantage over your opponent. Where the timing of every shot counts. And obviously that is going to be more exciting then losing simply because your opponent hits far harder and takes far less damage.

Gear based "PVP" is not a test of a player vs a player unless people really think that because someone was able to do more repetitive tasks over and over again because they don't have kids, or a job or a life (Or simply are willing to sacrifice those things they should be spending more time on) is somehow something that people can be tested for and be lauded as if they "accomplished" something.

The grind olympics? Is that something you want to be remembered for? You were better at wasting more time in your life then someone else so you "win"?

If we are going to have brackets, I think we should have a bracket where Expertise is shut off. ESPECIALLY if you are thinking E-sport. And ESPECIALLY if you are going to have a PVP rating system.

I have a feeling that bracket would be far more populated.

EDIT TO CLEAR UP A MISCONCEPTION: I do not feel that gear should no longer be acquirable through PVP. I feel that gear should be attainable through PVP, and be on par with gear in PVE. And that the advantage gear affords be curbed in PVP across the board. I am not asking for PVE to cause someone to win PVP. Resilience was the wrong answer. Expertise is no better.
Want to hunt griefers/gankers?
Do you like to PVP, OR RP, OR both, or either?
Honor might just be the guild for you!

TItanten's Avatar


TItanten
02.01.2012 , 10:42 AM | #2
Having gear matter in pvp is honestly the dumbest thing about MMO pvp.

When you can win a fight before a shot is launched just because you outgear somone does not make a good game.

The problem is, how do you get people to pvp if gear doesn't matter and they don't have that carrot on a stick?

Arrianlol's Avatar


Arrianlol
02.01.2012 , 10:44 AM | #3
ya most of the people in those brackets are still trying to level to 50 though too. And the others that reroll to play in a lowbie bracket aren't good pvpers and are too lazy to grind gear.

This is a mmo. You have to reward players for investing their time and energy building a character up. Why should you just be able to ding 50 and come in a WZ and dome me when I've put all this effort into the game that you haven't? Why don't you go play an FPS if that's the kind of equal playing field you want. I want my time and energy to mean something. If you weren't such a brat then you could suck it up and grind the gear out like everyone else in EVERY OTHER MMO

Torleen's Avatar


Torleen
02.01.2012 , 10:48 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by TItanten View Post
Having gear matter in pvp is honestly the dumbest thing about MMO pvp.

When you can win a fight before a shot is launched just because you outgear somone does not make a good game.

The problem is, how do you get people to pvp if gear doesn't matter and they don't have that carrot on a stick?
The carrot on a stick concept actually makes more work for an MMO develper. It was a very bad idea in the first place.

People PVPed for hours and hours in SWG and there was no gear given out because you PVPed. You did it because it was fun. Eventually they put in a PVP raiting, but honestly the reward should be the victory you earned.

Now, one thing I think we need is more RVR style objectives in the game worlds so that PVP can actually affect the world you are in. The best PVP I did in SWG was base busting, that is being able to destroy buildings that were usually in the cities of the opposing faction. This had affects on the planets in question, it would determine which faction's NPCs would spawn on that planet, etc. Now I know we can't do that necessarily but PVP where when you "win" you actually feel like you are winning a battle in a war rather then just another meaningless repetitive WZ, is far more rewarding.

People who addicted to gear based PVP just want to look at a scoreboard with their character's name on it so for a while they can delude themselves into believing that they are better then the people they rated against.
Want to hunt griefers/gankers?
Do you like to PVP, OR RP, OR both, or either?
Honor might just be the guild for you!

Aowar's Avatar


Aowar
02.01.2012 , 10:49 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Torleen View Post
People are leaving the 50's bracket and re-rolling characters so that they can continue to PVP in the 1-49 Brackets.

Lets really think about what that means.

It means that people would rather do the PVE grind AGAIN then put up with being the equivalent of being grey mobs in WZs who's purpose seems to be to entertain no one but the people who are lucky enough to have more free time or unlucky enough to simply have no life who get to kill you over and over again.

It means that PVP is MORE exciting when your adrenaline is pumping because you are in a pitched battle with someone who does the same damage and takes the same damage you do and it really comes down to quick thinking, reflexes and strategy that you EARNED through practice rather then because you have a statistical advantage over your opponent. Where the timing of every shot counts. And obviously that is going to be more exciting then losing simply because your opponent hits far harder and takes far less damage.

Gear based "PVP" is not a test of a player vs a player unless people really think that because someone was able to do more repetitive tasks over and over again because they don't have kids, or a job or a life (Or simply are willing to sacrifice those things they should be spending more time on) is somehow something that people can be tested for and be lauded as if they "accomplished" something.

The grind olympics? Is that something you want to be remembered for? You were better at wasting more time in your life then someone else so you "win"?

If we are going to have brackets, I think we should have a bracket where Expertise is shut off. ESPECIALLY if you are thinking E-sport. And ESPECIALLY if you are going to have a PVP rating system.

I have a feeling that bracket would be far more populated.

/translation I want gear handed to me in pvp.

Torleen's Avatar


Torleen
02.01.2012 , 10:50 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Aowar View Post
/translation I want gear handed to me in pvp.
Nope. I don't want gear to matter.

Player vs Player.

Not gear vs. gear.

Come on, if you are a PVPer you don't need the crutch. Don't hide behind your gear.
Want to hunt griefers/gankers?
Do you like to PVP, OR RP, OR both, or either?
Honor might just be the guild for you!

Justin-Nico's Avatar


Justin-Nico
02.01.2012 , 10:51 AM | #7
Ultima Online PVP was by far the most fun I've ever had in an MMO.
Even though you could loot your bodies corpse, the main reason to PVP was notoriety and bragging rights.

Not a huge fun of the gear but I understand people like farming that kind of stuff at the end game.

Daraco's Avatar


Daraco
02.01.2012 , 10:51 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Arrianlol View Post
ya most of the people in those brackets are still trying to level to 50 though too. And the others that reroll to play in a lowbie bracket aren't good pvpers and are too lazy to grind gear.

This is a mmo. You have to reward players for investing their time and energy building a character up. Why should you just be able to ding 50 and come in a WZ and dome me when I've put all this effort into the game that you haven't? Why don't you go play an FPS if that's the kind of equal playing field you want. I want my time and energy to mean something. If you weren't such a brat then you could suck it up and grind the gear out like everyone else in EVERY OTHER MMO
You know ALOT of people would just be happy with a Scoreboard so they can see how they compare to others, Which is why most people PvP in the first place, a Ranking system would be much more accepted and loved than a gear system.

Fryseboks's Avatar


Fryseboks
02.01.2012 , 10:51 AM | #9
Character progression in an MMO? WHAT IS THIS MADNESS?

Aowar's Avatar


Aowar
02.01.2012 , 10:53 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Torleen View Post
Nope. I don't want gear to matter.

Player vs Player.

Not gear vs. gear.

Come on, if you are a PVPer you don't need the crutch. Don't hide behind your gear.


Oh I'm sorry, you thought this was an FPS game. See in MMO's there is this thing called progression. I know this is a foreign concept to you but it is what every MMO is based on.