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Hardmode bosses need mechanics not unfairness


Ebbikenezer's Avatar


Ebbikenezer
02.01.2012 , 09:53 AM | #11
Well, if you have trouble beating an enrage timer, more often than not your group is not geared enough.. regardless of how "veteran" and "awesome" you are as MMO players.

That being said, yes some of the HM bosses are overtuned, but if you guys rolled it your first or second time in you would most likely be here complaining that it is too easy and you have nothing to do.

Our guild is a group of very experienced MMO players and we have found that as far as enrage timers: DPS scales remarkably well with gear in this game, and when we have had trouble with an enrage timer, just a couple days later we have blown it apart with a few gear upgrades.

All in all, I will just default to: If it was easier you'd complain. It's too hard so you complain. I'm sorry that there isn't a good middle ground for you. (Not being facetious either)
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ckoneful's Avatar


ckoneful
02.01.2012 , 09:54 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Loendar View Post
Enrage timers are a worthless and lazy way to design content in any game. Either I can kill the mob with my group, or I can't. Why should it matter how long it takes me to accomplish my goal? Dead is dead.

I'm from EQ2 and that mechanic, while it does exist on some of the higher end content, is used as an obvious timer mechanic and doesn't just wipe you but starts ramping up the difficulty while leaving you a chance if you start executing well.

Enrage timers shouldn't exist in any fashion - they aren't fun, they aren't challenging and they bring nothing to the event. Pure Dev Lazy.
Enrage timers exist so fights can't be solo'd or done with completely terrible players who afk auto attack or push 1 button. Do you really want to see everyone and their mom decked out in the best raid gear possible because you don't need to be good to get it?

Following mechanics may still be hard for them but pushing as much damage as possible while still avoiding mechanics is what makes PvE hard and seperates the 'Okay' from the 'Good' players.
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Chunkie's Avatar


Chunkie
02.01.2012 , 09:59 AM | #13
It's obvious the issue here is that you're not as experienced or skilled as you think you are. I personally think HM is too easy and should be made a little more difficult. HM is the end-game of end-game, or it should be. It should be only doable with a well equipped and experienced group, not random PUGs, which is what it is right now. Or at least with a PUG it should be a 50/50 chance to finish it.

There's not challenge in this game. I forgave the 1-50 easy-mode, but HM is a joke. It's not hard at all.

Loendar's Avatar


Loendar
02.01.2012 , 10:02 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Ebbikenezer View Post
Well, if you have trouble beating an enrage timer, more often than not your group is not geared enough.. regardless of how "veteran" and "awesome" you are as MMO players.

That being said, yes some of the HM bosses are overtuned, but if you guys rolled it your first or second time in you would most likely be here complaining that it is too easy and you have nothing to do.

Our guild is a group of very experienced MMO players and we have found that as far as enrage timers: DPS scales remarkably well with gear in this game, and when we have had trouble with an enrage timer, just a couple days later we have blown it apart with a few gear upgrades.

All in all, I will just default to: If it was easier you'd complain. It's too hard so you complain. I'm sorry that there isn't a good middle ground for you. (Not being facetious either)
Not true. Our group is perfectly capable of killing the mob - it is down to 5 percent health, nobody is dying and everything is stable.

Suddenly some arbitrary 'timer' kicks in and decides that even though we have no issues with the mob we didn't kill him in 5 minutes so we suck. That is a stupid, arbitrary and ultimately worthless distinction that does nothing to enhance the game.

Elyons's Avatar


Elyons
02.01.2012 , 10:04 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by mArchangel View Post
Most of the hardmode content is ok, but for christ's sake: The endboss fight is a total joke. On Rep side almost undoable. (Imp gets favoured by the devs as we all know and the advantage that peefs me in PvP - iE Animation times to apply damage etc - clearly makes it almost a cakewalk in comparison I would imagine) But that is besides the point. The point is this: Who the hell came up with the ill fated idea to have a 2 MINUTE (!!!!) enrage timer on a hardmode boss that is there to gear up for OPS if you need OPS gear to beat the enrage timer?

Look we are not noobs here. We are amongst some of the most experienced MMO players out there and trust me that we know what we are doing. If I cannot beat a boss after 100k repair bill (also who the hell conceived these repair prices btw????????? Belongs fired!)and like 15 wipes and trying everything I say one thing: This is either bugged or total nonsense design.

It's like: It's a hardmode, let's make him hit for 12k with 2 crystals in a row and whack a super-short enrage timer on. That'll do!


WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What you need is better and more mechanics not the same **** just 100 levels tougher and with unfairness triumph enrage timers. BioWare this is not fun - this is plain stupid and game breaking for me. An enrage timer belongs to an OPS - NOT IN A HARDMODE!!!
This is just plain rubbish!!!!!

Oh and I cannot await all the trash replies I expect telling me how I suck and we are just bad players and all this crap. No we aren't . But the boss fight designers should steal more from Blizzard tbh. <------And I NEVER thought I would say that, but WoW boss encounters are cool, because hardmodes ADD mechanics not unfairness!!!!!!!!!!!

As it is-I will not progress because I cannot. So I will play another alt up until it is fixed I guess. Oh and just so you know the statements go for almost all hardmodes. We did the False Emperor last night. We actually managed - not sure how but we did. HK-47 was WAYYYYYYYYY too hard and we were just lucky. Then we come to Malgus and he was a lousy pushover. Must have been the easiest encounter I have played on hard. What is the problem with you guys in Austin. This is BETA stuff guys. This is not ready to be let loose on 08/15 players at all.

I went from excited to interested to frustrated to angry to...........thinking of my dollars spent! Not good BW-not good at all. If endgame continues like that I may just leave. <------another thing I never thought I'd say.

P.S.: So we are clear: average gear level of the group around 126!!!!!! O.o Outrageous!


Your going to have to start doing belsavise dailies for epic 50 and 51 mods. You should also start doing Illum dailies and build datacron hunting so you can build yourself a matrix cube. To speed it up Id suggest buying the mods off the GTN and using the daily commendations to get your rakata implants. If you don't do this you are not going to pump out nearly enough DPS/Healing in order to beat enrage timers.


When Bioware said that HM's had been designed for fresh 50s.... They lied.
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Loendar's Avatar


Loendar
02.01.2012 , 10:05 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by ckoneful View Post
Enrage timers exist so fights can't be solo'd or done with completely terrible players who afk auto attack or push 1 button. Do you really want to see everyone and their mom decked out in the best raid gear possible because you don't need to be good to get it?

Following mechanics may still be hard for them but pushing as much damage as possible while still avoiding mechanics is what makes PvE hard and seperates the 'Okay' from the 'Good' players.
The terrible players you mention will never make it to the enrage timer - they will be dead way before that.

If you are able to solo the mob - more power to you. Who cares? The chance that you will need the gear if you are a one-man wrecking machine is minimal at best so why would you bother to start with.

Again - maybe it is a difference to what people expect because WoW does it and what I expect because I don't play games that assign arbitrary caps on my progression based on a 'timer of the day'. I can solo anything I want in EQ2 and if I can kill it - I get the reward.. if I can't, I move on.

The game is to kill the mob - not beat the clock.

Loendar's Avatar


Loendar
02.01.2012 , 10:07 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Chunkie View Post
It's obvious the issue here is that you're not as experienced or skilled as you think you are. I personally think HM is too easy and should be made a little more difficult. HM is the end-game of end-game, or it should be. It should be only doable with a well equipped and experienced group, not random PUGs, which is what it is right now. Or at least with a PUG it should be a 50/50 chance to finish it.

There's not challenge in this game. I forgave the 1-50 easy-mode, but HM is a joke. It's not hard at all.
None of which addresses that enrage timers are a worthless system.

I personally don't have the problems he is describing but I'm not willing to simply ignore a bad mechanic that negatively impacts people that CAN do the content if it weren't for a completely made up 'rule' about how fast.

Bluejayoo's Avatar


Bluejayoo
02.01.2012 , 10:13 AM | #18
I agree. Enrage timers are pure laziness, lack of creativity, and lack of proper game design.

I'd even be ok if ONE boss had an enrage timer as a mechanic unique to that boss, but EVERY HM FP boss having it?

Maybe Bioware will make a good MMO next time, because they were obviously in over their heads this time. The VO and story based leveling show they have some promise.
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Elyons's Avatar


Elyons
02.01.2012 , 10:13 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Loendar View Post
The terrible players you mention will never make it to the enrage timer - they will be dead way before that.

If you are able to solo the mob - more power to you. Who cares? The chance that you will need the gear if you are a one-man wrecking machine is minimal at best so why would you bother to start with.

Again - maybe it is a difference to what people expect because WoW does it and what I expect because I don't play games that assign arbitrary caps on my progression based on a 'timer of the day'. I can solo anything I want in EQ2 and if I can kill it - I get the reward.. if I can't, I move on.

The game is to kill the mob - not beat the clock.


Actually, the clock is part of the mob - so basically it is.
I will admit that some of these bosses are a pain - me and my group wiped 4 times on the Taral V end boss and around 4-5 times on the madman with implants inside Maelstrom Prison.

I had assumed I was doing something wrong because my last group I ran with was amazing - I examined my fellow players gear and
Only one of them (My tank friend) actually had 50 epics set in. It completely explained why it was so difficult.

You must be geared for these runs, or else you will die






However, my only complaint:



BIOWARE YOU IDIOTS - THERE ARE NO ******* JEDI KNIGHTS IN HERE, FIX YOUR FP SO THEY DON'T GIVE OUT RANDOM ****



/Rant off
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Harower's Avatar


Harower
02.01.2012 , 10:15 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Loendar View Post
Not true. Our group is perfectly capable of killing the mob - it is down to 5 percent health, nobody is dying and everything is stable.

Suddenly some arbitrary 'timer' kicks in and decides that even though we have no issues with the mob we didn't kill him in 5 minutes so we suck. That is a stupid, arbitrary and ultimately worthless distinction that does nothing to enhance the game.
Arbitrary: Based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system. So stop saying this word because however the boss is designed an idiots can call it Arbitrary.

You are wrong, they have decided that to defeat this boss a certain average dps is required. This is perfectly acceptable. The way to ensure this factor is to restrict the time thus setting the required damage per SECOND. You are objecting to a gear check? Well thank god we have people so much wisdom they feel they get to decide where the gear checks are. Just so you know, there are micro gear checks throughout the entire game. You just happen to not like this one.

So buck up princess, fix yourself / your team.

Having no difficulty with the mob? No the fight is based on you playing good enough. Which clearly you are not.


Experienced long time mmo players my ***.....
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