Is Swtor sexist?

You're writing that from a position of privilege and demonstrating a general lack of understanding of the subject of privilege. It's very interesting to learn about, and if you're interested in finding out why people disagree with you, and where your argument is flawed (aside from equating a minority wanting to be included with a minority wanting to exclude people), I'd suggest you look it up. If you're not terribly interested, then oh well, I'm not going to argue you, as I've seen the road that goes down in the pre-forum-wipe SGRA thread over many many iterations, and I've no desire to get this thread locked.

Anyone else have any "logical" arguments?

One's being a part of the majority does not make them privileged. Despite your persuasive language you fail to realize that colorful words don't make your argument coherent.


Proponents of this suggestion need to understand something:

It is NOT going to happen. There is good reason why it is NOT going to happen. Fairness is irrelevant. Equal treatment is irrelevant. There are those who hold the power, and the majority rules.

It amuses me that so many individuals are willing to rely on subjective arguments of personal preference in order to justify the limitations of choices for others. I can only presume they think they’re entitled to do such via majoritarian thinking rather than libertarian, thus I’m very happy to know that I can interfere in the game and life choices of others if I get sufficient numbers of people to support me. It won’t matter if the feature is a ‘choice’ that I can bypass; not wanting to see it is apparently sufficient reason.

As for SW:TOR being sexist, I regard Star Wars as a whole as sexist thus it makes sense for TOR to emulate that to some degree but I also think the entire gaming domain is saturated with immature male insecurity. It is entirely possible that this is simply derived from confirmation bias but the slavery, torture, etc seems far more overt in nature than the sexism. It’s as if sexism, both now and in the original films, was latent and unconscious in nature due to the social values of the time rather than an intentionally selected story-element. Of course, that’s speculative.

Whilst extreme sexual dimorphism renders males and females absurd, the sexualisation of women is almost always far greater by virtue of lower quantities of body-covering outfits in relation to men. It would appear that so many people are either incapable of seeing it or choose not to for egotistical reasons.

Personally, I can’t wait for a major MMO that embraces all choices and truly attempts to take advantage of the increasing market share attributable to women and minority groups. It is entirely speculative but I expect that a game that manages to truly purge rigid social roles and the drooling, fawning, belittling ‘herr herr, Guy-In-Real-Life’ attitude will be highly successful via its decreased reliance on immature males. It’s very easy to blame the game or players in isolation from each other but there’s feedback and many variables, such as the composition of the development team and the respective beliefs of its members, thus I blame both for not being willing to take some responsibility or to risk something new.

Ultimately, I have no problem with sexualisation but only if each sex has equal opportunity for that. One might argue that it is a fantasy world thus it doesn’t need to be ‘equalised’ but there’s a reason that rampant racism, homophobia, etc aren’t prevalent in gaming whilst objectification of women is; the composition is derived from the perceived social values of the audience and its creators.

In reality, it is always small groups that change the masses or spark dormant feelings rather than the ‘majority’ imposing their will as the majority are ‘cattle’ and ‘moral slaves,’ as Nietzsche put it. Any change is inevitably viral in nature. Consequently, I’m hoping change in this domain can be sparked by developers willing to try that path. For me, any game that crafts a fantasy social structure with complete silent equality will get my custom over something akin to this. Majoritarianism is irrelevant when the majority get swept up in change and are persuaded so easily. If ochlocracy were a reality in every nation then nothing would change as the static majority would always prevent it. Fortunately, that isn’t the case as per the above. I would argue that the de facto oligarchies render the majority a minor factor, but that's another discussion. I would hardly place much stock in the whims of the mobile vulgus as justification for anything because the very values they supposedly threaten to impose via force (how anyone can claim to speak on their behalf without rigorous evidence, I'll never know) are shifting constantly due to new inputs. I'll always regard the idea that the 'majority wants it' as an easily rectified argumentum ad populum that can be overturned with logic due to the inherent desire to avoid cognitive dissonance.

The reason that we keep using the word 'privilege' is because it's an established concept in sociology, and that is what I suggested that you google (there's all kinds of sociocultural privilege, all equally enlightening to learn about). It's not colorful words, it's just the term that is used for that concept.

Ok, lets settle this once and for all.
1. The costumes are movie approperiate and accurate to the SW lore.
2. Theres more nudity in the general beach than on this game, do mind you that "NUDE" by forbes dictionary definition means "not covering/covered at all" meaning if theres a bikini with a loincloth, it is not a nude/naked image.
3. i repeat but it seems important: Nude and naked means same thing, meaning there are no clothing or covering article on the model it was posed on, it means you are in afform whistl you came to birth. No clothing, fibers, furs or plants covering you up.
4. you see more nudity and bellybuttons in the school than on the game.
5. you can take off all your armor and see as much skin on female character.
6. While issue is more sensitive in US, european standards are more relaxed. On US if you are wearing a tanktop and boxers is considered scandalous to some, try imagining a man with a tangas and no shirt being normal underwear on EU area. That is still more than what game is showing.

Really, there are no costumes in the game that would be r-12 in the game. You are being paranoid about it, its funny that it is more propable that a 16 year old is posting these topics, as he is more aware that the imagenery of the game launches his hormones and insecurity. 12 year old might not be yet thinking of these issues the same way... And i find it funny really, but in reality, if you want to see more real skin and girls, go to the beach.

and as in the previous post, slave females were used for entertainment, same way as in early days of rome. Men being stronger, were better suitable for LABOR than entertaiment.

slave girl outfits = BW degrades women

women dont flirt as often = BW degrades women



jesus nvm i didnt read this thread before replying, i want out

again, beating a dead horse here, i can see more scandalous bikinis out the beach, than on the game. if women are choosing to wear these kinds of bikinis of theyr choise, your clearly double standarding feminist propaganda here.
it is covering anything inportant isnt it? or should women wear leg covering 40s bathing suits so they dont show ankle? I thought our civilisation grew out of this kind of thing allready.

In my view, the majority of your post is completely irrelevant and illogical as it relies on a straw-man. Specifically, stating ‘you could see more nudity elsewhere' has absolutely nothing to do with the issue in question as people seem to be focusing upon the lack of equal potential for such things. If your analogy is used, you’d see equally nude men at the beach too . The opening post doesn’t focus on saying “oh my, a lack of clothes proves sexism,” it deals with equal capacity to access such outfits and how the disparity shows it. It isn't even as if the players can choose outfits and self-generate such disparities, there's simply no alternative (wearing nothing isn't an alternative, you can't place modifications into nothing).

Beyond that, you seem to commit the typical fallacy of suggesting that ‘mature’ people reconcile themselves with society irrespective of its composition and rely on the notion that X is worse thus Y is suddenly acceptable. As for your reference to the Romans, that’s utterly irrelevant to the Star Wars universe as the mere existence of slavery doesn’t mean that they’ll be utilised in the same manner due to technological and social differences.

The one argument that has merit is the fact that the outfit possibilities are appropriate to the films, but I think that’s undermined by pointing out that absence does not preclude introduction in the future. Equally, I still don’t think that sexism was included intentionally for dramatic effect by whoever was, and is, responsible for story composition. I think it was latent in nature and entered the story via the implicit social values of the story-creators, whether male or female. Of course, that remains speculative.

In conclusion, did you even read the topic prior to posting?

no we are talking about coverage and sensuality of worn costumes in the game.
and if the topic is equalled for male characters, this is what we would see...
[SPOILER=may contain sexually offensive material.]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_9mbeNGtJZe...00/mankini.png[/SPOILER]

Is this really what you want to see in a game, male entertainment slaves? not propable, as i said, they would be more use in dilithium mines on endors moon, than on a cantina. Sadly, THIS is more propable and according to starwars lore.
and yes, i did read the d**n topic and sublying reasons of it. Game follows SW lore, and on sw lore, there were slave girls in skanky uniforms entertaining cantina patrons on dancefloors. Most famous of em were twilegs, but as we see in starwars movies, there were other races aswell.

let me ask you this: how much coverage is on regular bikini? vs. leias slave bikini?, to me, slave girl metal golden bikini covers lot more than regular one.

let me mind you tha you purposly bypassed the issue of women willingly wearing less covering bikinis on public places, and you claim the outfit worn on the game, designed over 20-25 years ago is more scandalous and degenerating to the women population... if they would think it is degenerating to them, then why on earth are they 1. buyin em, 2. wearing em 3. enjoying em??? Your posting a double standard, and i am having hard time accepting it. Sure, i DO wear speedos when i swim, so what? if somebody wants to see my tubby round midweist, so what? i am covering anything of importance.

As long as they dont show ni***s, aeola, pubic hear, a**cr**k, genitalia or cameltoe, i dont see the problem here. Anything considerable being sexual content is satisfied by covering it up with article of clothing.

p.s. seems like even cencorship filter is pointing out discussing these invisible regions are not suitable to be spoken off...