Wow, this thread got derailed into ************ pretty quickly.

Let’s stay on the topic of threat generation (on single targets) for the Juggernaut, and cease the tangents.

My experience is that Juggernaut sustained threat on single targets is better than the Powertech, but burst is slightly lower though mitigated via a full rage-bar on demand.

Is my experience out of touch and, if so, why?

yes, if you spec immortal you are playing the game wrong. There isnt any content IN THE GAME that requires the little defensive advantage (over vengeance) granted by immortal spec.Why would you op to take a small defensive gain over much more damage? Do you die alot?Are the healers failing?Enough said...

fail troll fails

yes, if you spec immortal you are playing the game wrong. There isnt any content IN THE GAME that requires the little defensive advantage (over vengeance) granted by immortal spec.Why would you op to take a small defensive gain over much more damage? Do you die alot?Are the healers failing?Enough said...

 

 

 

Man, you're so witty and funny... gg

 

PS: BTW, you letting us know that you lvl'd as immortal aswell as pvp in immortal spec is proof enough to me that i shouldn't waste anymore posts arguing with you.Not only because it is inefficient, but because you obviously didn't even try the other specs during lvling.I mean, have you even tried vengeance or even rage specs?

Wow what a fail troll. I laughed pretty hard at this.

I found your problem. It's right here:

 

 

This is not WoW or any other MMO. This is TOR.

 

If you try to tank like you do in WoW or other similar MMOs you will fail. Your "experience" means absolutely jack. The mere fact that you're here on the forums whining about your failings as a tank is testament to my point.

 

Take a step back, examine what's going wrong and then fix it.

Having played every tank in WoW since vanilla I can tell you that it is very similar.

Biggest difference is you can let some mobs beat on group members without much problem in ToR. Usually in WoW you couldn't do that. WoW has a lot of abilities to put your threat above other classes quickly, ToR only has a couple.

In the end you are still just standing there using abilities on a mob to make that mob attack you. Doesn't get much more varied than that. There isn't some secret method introduced to this game, it's the exact same tanking style in Vanilla, except it's easier in that you don't have to tank every mob that is unCC'd.

Having played every tank in WoW since vanilla I can tell you that it is very similar.

 

Biggest difference is you can let some mobs beat on group members without much problem in ToR. Usually in WoW you couldn't do that. WoW has a lot of abilities to put your threat above other classes quickly, ToR only has a couple.

 

In the end you are still just standing there using abilities on a mob to make that mob attack you. Doesn't get much more varied than that. There isn't some secret method introduced to this game, it's the exact same tanking style in Vanilla, except it's easier in that you don't have to tank every mob that is unCC'd.

In the end, you are comparing TOR to WoW still...apples to oranges my friend. Time to get over or go back to it, or at least be productive and constructive in your QQing. Man the **** up!

Wow, Xaviour and Samurro, that was the most entertaining back and forth rant i've seen on the forums. maybe its because i play a jugg tank as well, laughing at every single counterpoint you guys made.

Back to point of this thread, though, immortal is definitely viable in PVE, just needs some tweeking here and there.

This thread is supplying much useful information for me though I must say.

Single threat target is really easy as a jug. Here's a good opener for it.

Saber throw > charge > taunt > sundering assault > crushing blow > backhand.

While the boss is taunted only you will generate threat towards it. And that opener of crushing blow and backhand, is your highest burst.

For the opener to work right, you need to have improved sundering assault from the vengeance tree.

yes, if you spec immortal you are playing the game wrong. There isnt any content IN THE GAME that requires the little defensive advantage (over vengeance) granted by immortal spec.Why would you op to take a small defensive gain over much more damage? Do you die alot?Are the healers failing?Enough said...

 

PS: BTW, you letting us know that you lvl'd as immortal aswell as pvp in immortal spec is proof enough to me that i shouldn't waste anymore posts arguing with you.Not only because it is inefficient, but because you obviously didn't even try the other specs during lvling.I mean, have you even tried vengeance or even rage specs?

Though Vengeance spec is a effective tree, don't be trash talking my spec buddy. I max out immortal/defense/endurance first before everything. I don't die, EVER. Getting shielded every time you use Force Scream is not a small defensive bonus. It allows Immortals to rotate shielding almost indefinitely during a fight, which means I slowly but surely beat my enemies to a pulp as they run out of skills and wait for cool downs. If you were on my server I'd stomp you good.

Hahaha I have to think the person bashing immortal spec is a troll. Even someone who hasn't played immortal at all wouldn't be so blatantly ignorant.

Let's do a quick and dirty analysis (looking above 10 points into a tree since you could spec any tree and still grab the first tier talents in another):

immortal

Relation now provides 6% melee/range defense for 6 seconds

40% flat damage reduction for 10 seconds after 3 minutes

4% shield chance

Force scream now shields for 10 seconds (absorbs about 1100-1200 dmg at 50)

Backhand for stun/threat

Force choke no longer channels

4% flat reduction to elemental and internal damage

50% more time for endure pain

Doubles the frequency you generate rage from incoming damage in soresu form

sweeping strike/vicious slash reduce cooldown timer on enrage

vengeance

20% dmg reduction for 4 seconds after force charge

4% total endurance

Intercede damage reduction applies to you (pointless for many encounters due to positioning)

4% flat damage reduction

I don't think SWTOR was setup so that every add sticks to a tank like glue. Most classes have good CC skills and half of classes can off-tank. 1-2 of the strongest adds is really the most a Jugg can hold while the DPS smacks down the weakest first.

The jugg can hold more targets than 1 or 2.. L2 play..lmao.. and you're telling me in a reply that you'd 'stomp me good'?? that is LOL... mabey dont get tunnel vision and go do your job?

Ok, im getting pretty flamed up for calling out how terrible immortal spec is!! (You know it is) /cry.So, having done all of the content in StarWars The Old Republic, and get this!I even tanked alot of it in immortal spec!! Until i wised up and realized it wasnt needed!!! Please one of you all knowing forum gods please tell me what raid encounter requires immortal spec??

Also, please tell me why you would want to lower raidwide dps (even if it doesnt seem significant) by specing into an inferior spec known as immortal when it is not needed / terrible. Im looking for a good laugh.

Or mabey I'll never visit these forums again seeing as it's full of the kind of people that lvl and pvp as immortal spec and then wanna try to tell me something about a tank?! rofl...

Well, Xav bud, I'm sorry your not having fun, but in all honesty...you brought it on yourself. You are literally telling those of us who like Immortal that we are playing it wrong. Why? Because you do more damage as a Vengeance spec. You ask what content needs Immortal spec to complete...I ask does it matter? You can solo as a veng, I can solo as an Immortal. You can tank as a Veng, I can tank as an Immortal. As long as we are both doing our jobs and we are having fun in our own way, are we really playing the game wrong? No, no we are not. Are some of us Immorties (read, those of us who like the Immortal spec) taking a harsh stance on your OPINION? Possibly, but then again how would you, as a Vengie feel if we told you that you were flat out wrong for your choice in how to play.

TL;DR If I'm having fun as an Immortal and you are having fun as a Veng, is it really wrong?

I found your problem. It's right here:

 

 

This is not WoW or any other MMO. This is TOR.

 

If you try to tank like you do in WoW or other similar MMOs you will fail. Your "experience" means absolutely jack.

This is absolutely wrong. You are not making me want to read your guide if you can't even see the glaring similarities between WoW and this game.

This game is very obviously similar to WoW, it is exactly the same format and you can certainly bring everything you know from any other MMORPG to it, there hasn't been a different format of MMORPG released for years, TOR included.

I have been a successful tank in all MMORPGs I have played, this one has not been any different as yet and my Jugg plays pretty much exactly the same as my WoW Prot Warrior. It's uncanny how similar they are, almost as if the designers weren't even trying to make them different.

Here's a guide for you to use in most MMORPGs on the market:

Trash: Mark CC targets, let your group know kill order. Execute plan. Win.

Boss: Explain fight, let your group know kill order if applicable, sort out positioning, move from fire. Execute plan. Win.

Playing your character: Build your resource, apply and/or reapply your buffs/debuffs, dump your resource. Use cooldowns as needed.

These games are not supposed to be 'hard' they are supposed to be enjoyed with other people while having a laugh. If you can do it easily, you are doing it correctly. If you are having trouble and finding it hard, you are doing something wrong and just need to do a little research to find what that is.

Ok, im getting pretty flamed up for calling out how terrible immortal spec is!! (You know it is) /cry.So, having done all of the content in StarWars The Old Republic, and get this!I even tanked alot of it in immortal spec!! Until i wised up and realized it wasnt needed!!! Please one of you all knowing forum gods please tell me what raid encounter requires immortal spec??

 

Also, please tell me why you would want to lower raidwide dps (even if it doesnt seem significant) by specing into an inferior spec known as immortal when it is not needed / terrible. Im looking for a good laugh.

 

Or mabey I'll never visit these forums again seeing as it's full of the kind of people that lvl and pvp as immortal spec and then wanna try to tell me something about a tank?! rofl...

I suggest you read this entire thread:

http://sithwarrior.com/forums/Thread-Immortal-Defense-Compendium-A-Tank-s-Guide-To-The-Galaxy

There is some very in-depth analysis which shows that the Veng Hybrid doesn't do very much more DPS than a full Immortal build, while it does do a little more, it's not huge. As far as damage mitigation goes it can be on par with Immortal, however you will need to Intercede / Force Charge on cooldown. Which is not realistic and as soon as you miss a few then Immortal seems to pull ahead.

It's a very interesting read.

Please one of you all knowing forum gods please tell me what raid encounter requires immortal spec??

Tell us which encounter requires a vengeance spec?

I'd rather shift a bit from tank gear to offense, rather then respeccing into vengeance.

 

I realize that we are not suppose to be great at AoE tanking, I can accept that as long as single target threat would not be an issue.

 

I figured this was a known issue and would be addressed, however I am not seeing anything coming down the pipeline to address this issue.

 

I don't want abilities to do more damage and effect PvP, I simply want proper threat modifiers, possibly tied to talents to make tanking on a Jugg viable threat wise. With tight enrage timers being pretty much the mainstay difference between difficulty modes, it doesn't help to tell my DPS to wait 10 seconds to DPS.

 

It baffles me that this has not been addressed yet. There has to be a large population of Jugg tanks out there experiencing this.

 

I have not read a dev post on this issue, if anyone has a link to one, I would appreciate it.

 

Thanks.

I can't agree more. I too, would like to know devs or anyone competent enough answer to this, because smack talk i see in these kind of threads is not helping and mere existence of them in such abudance is pointing out, that there is some kind of problem. And honestly, I feel the same.

So please, can anyone from devs or competent enough give us any kind of answer?

Thanks in advance.

Sincerely yours, average Immortal Juggernaut, that has done his homework in tanking.

BUFF AOE THREAT PLEASE , im tired of Sin's and Powertechs doing the job i can barley do it makes Nightmare karraga's Trash a nightmare!

Learn to CC and kill things in the proper order.

learn to cc and kill things in the proper order.

looooooooooooool

1. Purchase "Target Marker" from social vendor on fleet

2. Hotkey that badboy to ~

3. Tell party to only attack marked target

4. ???????

5. Profit!!!!

Or get VOIP. EZ MODE tanking then. Remember - its easy to hold threat on someone that only you are attacking.

1. Purchase "Target Marker" from social vendor on fleet

2. Hotkey that badboy to ~

3. Tell party to only attack marked target

4. ???????

5. Profit!!!!

 

 

 

Or get VOIP. EZ MODE tanking then. Remember - its easy to hold threat on someone that only you are attacking.

id really like to see this EZ mode tanking everyone who i talk to juggs techs sins say Jugg is the worse AoE threat , so please show me !

BUFF AOE THREAT PLEASE , im tired of Sin's and Powertechs doing the job i can barley do it makes Nightmare karraga's Trash a nightmare!

Which trash packs are giving you problems? The biggest issues I see in Karragas have nothing to do with AoE threat and everything to do with correct kill order. If you don't kill the technicians first and then take down the ones that spawn the murder droids you'll have problems. The other trash are really simple, i.e. kill the gunners first and kill the beast handlers or interrupt their fire bomb.