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The role of a Defense shadow/assassin in Op groups

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions
The role of a Defense shadow/assassin in Op groups

Rogueywon's Avatar


Rogueywon
01.30.2012 , 08:15 AM | #11
I'm a shadow tank and, having been level 50 for just over a week now, I've not found any evidence that I'm behind other classes in terms of survivability. With the right talents, gear and rotations, I have found no evidence that shadow tanking isn't viable. There are plenty of good theorycrafting articles out there.

I'm not that far into end-game content yet (in terms of group content, I've only done a few Hard Mode Flashpoints - Operations will have to wait until we have more 50s in the guild), but the difference that decent gear has made to my survivability is impressive. I tried Esseles Hard Mode with a guild group a couple of days after hitting 50 and only got to the second boss - it was just too much for the healer. Tried it again last night (with the same group) and it was trivial, thanks to the gear from dailies and the normal modes for Battle of Ilum/False Emperor.

I've not seen enough of the other tanking classes yet to offer detailed thoughts on how we stack up vs them, but my early thoughts are that we come out roughly the same in terms of damage reduction and evasion, somewhat ahead of them in terms of multi-target threat and positioning/utility and perhaps slightly behind in terms of ability to stack on rapid single-target threat. Happy to be proven wrong on any of that in due course, however.

Eirienie's Avatar


Eirienie
01.30.2012 , 08:55 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Glorionn View Post
This another person coming to the conclusion that "other classes wear heavy armour, mine doesnt" then whining about it? Look at the facts. Shadows MT Ops. If you have a problem, its your problem, not the class.
You know, I should have known better to ask for advice or knowledge on an MMO forum...behave, children, behave.

ferroz's Avatar


ferroz
01.30.2012 , 10:16 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Eirienie View Post
You know, I should have known better to ask for advice or knowledge on an MMO forum...behave, children, behave.
While I agree some of the responses are a bit over the top... you weren't really asking for advice or knowledge: you came in convinced of a falsehood and that has to be corrected.

Ashane's Avatar


Ashane
01.30.2012 , 11:40 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Eirienie View Post
You know, I should have known better to ask for advice or knowledge on an MMO forum...behave, children, behave.
Several posters have given you information as to why your conclusion is wrong.. and this is how you respond?

For the record, I'm usually the MT in everything we do and have absolutely no problem. There also isnt a Jugg anywhere on the planet with 8K more HP then me, not unless they are popping their buff.. and even then I'm not sure it would be 8k more.

It sounds like you just hit 50 and are undergeared, comparing yourself to a full Rakata/Columni geared Jugg, then going "Why do I suck".
Ashane | Flameborne

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eightohfive's Avatar


eightohfive
01.30.2012 , 11:53 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Eirienie View Post
I'm a new level 50 Jedi Shadow, and specced thoroughly through the defense tree for tanking power.

But in running red reaper at level 48, it's a little apparent that Shadows don't possess the same pure baseline defense capability as say, a Guardian. So I'm curious, what exactly is the role of a Defense Shadow in an Ops group? Do we main tank anything? Offtank some adds? Pull bosses off of the main tanks for a short breather?

What are you experiences with shadows in Ops groups? Just looking for an idea of what I am going to be doing or responsible for...and if I should just go to boring ol' dps Shadow.
My younger brother is an Assasin tank. We've done all the Hardmode flashpoints, plus HM 8man EV with him as the main tank. This isn't his first MMO but it's his first time tanking. Our 16man normal has a juggy MT and my brother off tanking...but there is no reason he couldn't MT, the juggy has just been doing it longer.

So have no fear, just make sure you are getting the best gear you can get your hands on (goes for anyone who wants to do progression raiding) and you will be able to MT or OT to your heart's content.
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eightohfive's Avatar


eightohfive
01.30.2012 , 12:00 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Eirienie View Post
I never said I felt inadequete. But it's clear I need healing more than a class wearing heavy armor with 8k more base HP than me.

So with that said now. I should obviously stack up on shield/defense/absorption/endurance stuff. But where can I start to do so? I'm currently wearing Champion pieces as I've been an avid pvp'er, but I have a feeling that stuff isn't going to be ideal for the raid scene.
Champion pieces should be fine for HM flashpoints and normal EV/KP. These are the best ways to gear up...once you have a decent set of Columi/Tionese you can start on HM EV/KP.

The Champion main hands is probably one of the best weapons you will see for awhile. Make sure you are doing the dailies for the Rakata Implants and Ear piece. Also craft whatever epic upgrades you can (Biochem is amazing for the tank...as much as I hate to say it, it's the most effective/useful skill you can pick up).

If someone has 8k more HP than you, its because they are decked out with good gear. Most 50's start out with 12k-15k HP depending on class, once you have Columi and other good pieces, you will have 17k-23k hp (again depending on class).
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Brumani's Avatar


Brumani
01.30.2012 , 02:57 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Eirienie View Post
I never said I felt inadequete. But it's clear I need healing more than a class wearing heavy armor with 8k more base HP than me.

So with that said now. I should obviously stack up on shield/defense/absorption/endurance stuff. But where can I start to do so? I'm currently wearing Champion pieces as I've been an avid pvp'er, but I have a feeling that stuff isn't going to be ideal for the raid scene.

I'm shadow tank aswell ( my guild's main tank). I got bit over 23k (selfbuffed) hp, so I would like to see som1 with 8k more than I do (I count stim as selfbuff since its unlimited couse I got biochem). I've solo tanked every single flashpoint on hardmode and both raids (on 8man) on hardmode aswell.
-B

Natarii's Avatar


Natarii
01.30.2012 , 03:07 PM | #18
As a healer, I'd actually rather heal an assassin tank over a juggernaut - the assassin's self healing and mitigation make them feel a bit less spikey than the juggernaut. The assassin seems to gather aoe threat better too with the discharge being somewhat cleave-like. I'd reiterate what others have stated - check your gear and spec. Be sure to have a SHIELD generator equipped and not just a focus. Shield, absorb, and defense stats with maybe some accuracy thrown in should be your go-to stats. Best of luck!
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Shedari's Avatar


Shedari
01.30.2012 , 03:45 PM | #19
I'm an assassin tank and do just fine. With rakata stim + BH buff I'm over 24K hp with comparable stats to our jug tank. The issue we have is lower damage reduction and possibly defense, which is countered by our higher HP.

I tanked/offtanked 16NMM just fine pre-patch and have done all NMM content 8 man post-patch.
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