Please, Don't Roll on Items for Another Class in Your Team

The problem is, if you implement a system where someone can't roll as they choose, regardless of others' approval, you then force that person to play by your rules, making it unfair for them.

Because of this, a simple and objective method is required to be "most fair" to all concerned, and that's the system we have now: all who participated can roll on whatever priority level they personally choose, whatever their motivations are. The system doesn't care about their motivations, it cares that they chose a priority level, and then it randomly generated a number between 1 and 100 for them.

This argument is sourced in disagreement over whether a Need roll is justified or not. We have two camps who are unlikely to ever reach conceptual parity here: one camp says "My motivations are valid and don't require your approval", the other camp says "Your motivations require our approval".

Which is the whole point, you can't simply ignore them because they don't fit into your system. Because orange items do exist, and they do drop. So they have to be accounted for, and the system used in other games can not account for them.

SWTOR has a enough stuff that's different about it, that the old systems simply do not work here, when you try to cut/paste them in.

I think it's fair to say orange moddable items and the companion system are 'game-changers' in the true sense of the word. This game may not be so easily forced to conform to previous models, expectations and established ways of doing things.

You get the choice, and has no bearing on the inherent fairness of the system.

giving each player the choice is more fair inherently.
giving some players the ability to dictate choices to other players is less fair.

With my system, each player has their own choice. I dictate nothing to anyone. That's more fair.

with your system, you get your choice and you get to dictate choice to other players. That's less fair.


Yes you are.

you're rolling against me in an utterly fair and impartial setting.

Irrelevant. The fact that I get to make the decision and that you get to make your decision, and neither of us get to control the decision of the other makes it fair.

I don't know why this is such a difficult concept.

Then why shouldn't that line be "Let each player decide if they can use it"? You can respect their evaluation of their character and play, or you can try to find some line to keep them behind and get annoyed when they cross.

Mods can be chopped up and utilized in an insane number of ways. If you don't want to deal with the fact that an item drops that would be an improvement for my lightsaber's Enhancement, my legs' Mod, and my helmet's Armoring, that's fine - but "drawing the line" and saying I'm a rude, discourteous, narcissistic ninja looter because you don't want to deal with the complicated nature of gear in this game isn't right either.

What Ferroz said here is most important: in a system where people can determine their own motivations without enforceable adjustment from other players with their own (possibly conflicting) goals, all rolls are equal. If someone chooses the lower priority roll (Greed) they're inherently saying they aren't going to be upset if someone chooses a higher priority roll (and thus wins the item). If they know they'd be upset, they have the choice to choose the higher priority roll to insure they have rolling parity with anyone else who makes that same higher priority choice.

The opposition to this perspective says that people require permission from the party before choosing the highest priority roll, which isn't the case, and which only serves to limit choices. Ferroz' position (and mine) leaves total choice up to the individual players, which is what's most fair and definitely most impartial.

You are confusing "fair" and "right".

The system as it is can only be FAIR. All players are free to hit 'need' whenever they like.

You feel it isn't RIGHT that someone else is rolling for their companions.

They are different words and mean different things.

About the only other fair way I can think of is to strip the mods from them and allow "no-one" a need roll on it. Save need/greed for everything else including the mods that would have been in it.

So why is it unfair to let people decide if it will be an improvement for themselves?