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No, You May Not Roll on Items for Another Class and Strip Out the Mods

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
No, You May Not Roll on Items for Another Class and Strip Out the Mods

Setanian's Avatar


Setanian
01.30.2012 , 01:40 PM | #981
Quote: Originally Posted by Loendar View Post

Your method greatly diminishes their potential reward in favor of your own.
No it does not. Please stop asserting this false allegation. It is false. Fact not opinion.
What is that baseball bat in your signature? Oh! It's a lightsaber! How cute is that !

face_hindu's Avatar


face_hindu
01.30.2012 , 01:41 PM | #982
Quote: Originally Posted by Setanian View Post
No it does not. Please stop asserting this false allegation. It is false. Fact not opinion.

Setanian refuses to entertain this analogy.


Quote: Originally Posted by CBGB View Post
If we run a FP and a great upgrade drops for you, Sith Marauder, you're in luck with a group running under 'don't roll for items that upgrade another teammate's class more than yours.' You have a 100% chance of improving (assuming no other Marauders in the group).

Under 'Press Need for anything, even for items that don't upgrade your primary stats,' your odds drop to 50% when I roll. In this case, the reason I roll - I like the look, I'm short on cash, I want to give it to my companion's girlfriend - doesn't matter, but it's clear that it does not improve my primary abilities.

In two runs with drops perfectly suited to each of us, we go from a perfect chance to both upgrade to half as likely, and by half again when others roll, too.

That 'greedy' team will end up weaker than the considerate one. Do you really want to cut the chance of improving my heals by 75%?



Under my suggestion, every player has an equal chance at drops in a run. They simply have a greater chance of getting drops for their class.

Is that clear? I'm not asking for a special claim on Marauder or Powertech or Sorceror items with my Agent - you have priority when those items drop.
On March 20th, 2006, Moniker said:
We make sword stone for keeper and pull they do it and excalibur come out. have no make stone to for sword we make sword box for sword to put sword in for sword.

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Loendar's Avatar


Loendar
01.30.2012 , 01:42 PM | #983
Quote: Originally Posted by Creed_Buhallin View Post
Telling someone that their way of playing is inferior to yours is not respectful of others.

Is it maximally beneficial to the team's ability to progress if someone takes an item for looks instead of stats? No, it's not. But pursuing that maximal benefit is not the only way to respect others in the group.

Personally, I do my best to make sure everyone enjoys their time in the game as much as possible. That means that if looks are important to my wife, and stats are important to you, then you get an even chance to get that item and the dice will decide it, and we press on and deal with the content that comes next. That's how you respect other players, not this twisted view of forcing maximal effective stat progression down their throats whether they like it or not.
I've never said they are inferior. To each their own. I do feel strongly that needing on everything for all aspects of your character over another real player is morally bankrupt in a social game - but I don't think they are inferior.

Just ill-informed.

Setanian's Avatar


Setanian
01.30.2012 , 01:43 PM | #984
Quote: Originally Posted by Loendar View Post
You are ascribing some weird morale high-ground to my choice where none exists. There is no martyrdom occuring here other than in your misinformed interpretation.

I want gear for my toon AND I want my groupmates to have gear for their toons.
So play the right way. Need on what you need. Why do you keep bringing up straw man arguments to confuse the issue?

On one hand you want an equal right, which you already have, and on the other you are asking us to not to need on what we want.
What is that baseball bat in your signature? Oh! It's a lightsaber! How cute is that !

Loendar's Avatar


Loendar
01.30.2012 , 01:44 PM | #985
Quote: Originally Posted by ferroz View Post
Who are you claiming does this?

What statements indicate otherwise? Can you quote one of mine?
Pretty sure I quoted the person I was referring to.

Setanian's Avatar


Setanian
01.30.2012 , 01:46 PM | #986
Quote: Originally Posted by Loendar View Post
I've never said they are inferior. To each their own. I do feel strongly that needing on everything for all aspects of your character over another real player is morally bankrupt in a social game - but I don't think they are inferior.

Just ill-informed.
How can it be ill-informed? Ill-informed means not to know something or to have bad information.

I know, I don't have bad information. I know each of the 4 players get to roll, they choose how. Which part am I ill-informed about ?
What is that baseball bat in your signature? Oh! It's a lightsaber! How cute is that !

face_hindu's Avatar


face_hindu
01.30.2012 , 01:46 PM | #987
Quote: Originally Posted by Setanian View Post
So play the right way. Need on what you need. Why do you keep bringing up straw man arguments to confuse the issue?

On one hand you want an equal right, which you already have, and on the other you are asking us to not to need on what we want.
At the very least, if you're going to continue posting, please be constructive and quit bullying people, please. Please give us some constructive ideas.
On March 20th, 2006, Moniker said:
We make sword stone for keeper and pull they do it and excalibur come out. have no make stone to for sword we make sword box for sword to put sword in for sword.

Anarchy Online Bulletin Board

Creed_Buhallin's Avatar


Creed_Buhallin
01.30.2012 , 01:47 PM | #988
Quote: Originally Posted by face_hindu View Post
So you are saying that the majority of posters who have posted a strong opinion on this issue are in favour of "Need on whatever you want"?

I don't know what you're trying to say, because you haven't said anything.
Do I need to give a statistics class here? Fine.

Sample selection is one of the most critical tasks in the proper application of statistical modeling. It must be properly random and free of bias, or any attempt to extrapolate the state of the group at large will be invalid.

There are a great many things which can corrupt a sample: self-selection (i.e. asking for volunteers) is a prime one. Sample restriction (i.e. selecting your sample from a smaller sample, rather than the whole group) is another. Pretty much at the top of the list is laying out a honeypot to draw people in, followed right behind an environment with coercive intimidation.

Guess what? Your thread count has all of them. You're looking at a sample drawn from an already tiny subsample (the forum), which used an emotional honeypot to draw people in (thread title) where people were bombarded with intimidation and coercion for disagreeing with your side (blacklist threats, give me your server/character name, insults and name-calling) and then counted only people who chose to respond.

In short, you'd get laughed out of the first week of an undergrad stats class with something like that. I'm sure it makes you feel better to spend all that time counting people who agree with you and think it means something (that's called confirmation bias) but in the grand view of analyzing the broader community, it's not just meaningless, it's outright lies and propaganda.

ferroz's Avatar


ferroz
01.30.2012 , 01:47 PM | #989
Quote: Originally Posted by Loendar View Post
My entire method of loot distribution supports respect for other players and the investment they make in grouping with me.
No, it doesn't. It shows 0 respect for any other player who has different priorities than you do.

Quote:
Your method greatly diminishes their potential reward in favor of your own.
No, it really doesn't change their potential reward. Their potential remains exactly the same. Potentially they can win every drop in the flashpoint.

My way give everyone the exact same chance of reward instead of favoring people with a specific loot priority. It's about fairness.

Quote:
Just because you CAN roll any anything doesn't make it 'more fair' unless everyone is doing it for the same reasons.
Wrong.
"you can roll for anything you want"
is more fair than
"you can not roll for things you want because someone else has an arbitrary rule based on priorities that that you don't agree with."

It doesn't matter whether everyone choose to exercise their right; the fairness is all about choice and whether you choose to exercise that choice or not, it's more fair to have it than not to have it.

Quote:
You are imposing your beliefs on the group as solidly as anyone else in this thread and the sooner you realize that your way benefits you a lot more than anyone else the sooner you can join a social game.
No, I don't impose any of my beliefs on anyone. They're free to need or greed as they want.

They just don't get to impose their belief's on me.

Loendar's Avatar


Loendar
01.30.2012 , 01:47 PM | #990
Quote: Originally Posted by Setanian View Post
No it does not. Please stop asserting this false allegation. It is false. Fact not opinion.
If I roll need only on items that directly improve my character (not companion, not for looks) while YOU roll on everything for any reason - you will get more items over time.

That is a fact.

How you can't grasp that rolling 100x vs. 10x is going to give you more is beyond me.