NO Addons please. There is another solution!

You have no idea what healbot does, do you?

That's the nice thing about addons... they never have to be on your screen.

So whether we have addons or not, you never have to have it be a big load of numbers popping out of your screen, since you can just continue to not use them.

"newbie has been removed" ... guess u were the newbie cause u got overgeared guy 1 2 3 4 so the only slot remaining for u is the 5th aka the kicked guy.

and sorry but if u couldnt outdps a tank in wow i know why they kicked u.

"You have no idea what healbot does, do you?"

y this guy made me laugh 2... a unitframe addon makes this game like an old nintendo game?

No, they are not all crutches. Some of them may be (the onus is on you to demonstrate this still), but certainly many of them aren't.

Even for the few that are, a crutch is necessary for someone with a broken/crippled/missing leg...

No, I'd like to learn from experience. And have addons.

this looks like an "argument by gibberish" fallacy.

You clearly have no idea what healbot does in wow and are just looking at the "bot" part of the word. That's a common mistake.

Raid timers do less to make players lazy than allowing them to use ventrilo... do you crusade against it's use?

gear scrore doesn't make players lazy, though it does allow them to snub people who have sub-par gear for having sub-par gear without having to look at their gear. It doesn't make them lazy. It doesn't make them elitist either (they'll be elitist about something else, without it, like saying "tanks need 18k health" in tor)

at no point does any addon actually become required... you may run into individuals that want you to have it to play with them, but there are always plenty of people who don't care either way.

Ventrillo gives a bigger advantage; do you crusade against it's use?

False; they can easily limit the addon api and restrict it if they find something has slipped through.

repeating your unsupported assertion doesn't actually make it any more true.

I saw people posting requests with gear scrore requirements in general

I pugged 3-8 raids a week all through wrath, and never once ran with someone who asked about gear score.

Just look how they play its not hard. Are they overaggroing often, are they on the wrong mobs, are they helping with cc, are they using right abilties that the right time... will you see this in your precious stats? There are games that are close to 13 years old and still being played where there never been any meters and funny enough, they actually get by there anyway. I wonder how....

• overaggroing: Yes; you can tell what types of damage they are taking, and can see if that's due to taking aggro on mobs.
• wrong mobs: yes, recount shows this. I called out the top dps in a voa raid in wow back during wrath who was skipping the adds.
• CC: yes, it show's CCs
• Right abilities: Mostly Yes, it shows interrupts, debuffs, CC breaks, and a full break down of how many times each ability was used and how much damage or healing it did.

What games are you talking about?

I mean, EQ had them within a month or 2 of launch (3rd party combat log parsers). So it can't be that one. It's probably one of the most popular of the games of that era, right?

You are talking about the illegal kind of software that was against EULA that was used by hackers? That people used to warp to bosses and even use stuff like ghost kill?

And yeah stop treating the game like a science project and go with feeling, its amazing how often it works just looking with your eyes.

They overaggro Gharj. Are they perhaps hitting the wrong mob? The encounter has only one mob 95% of the time.

And yes, I see things like this in my "precious" stats. Though the crowd control part we just handle through Mumble, that's not the problem. But saying what kind of threat I do on Mumble doesn't work, partly because it'd be filled up with "careful, I had to Assault", but mostly because I just don't know how much damage I do. I'd also like to make the choice for a few skill points a bit more educated than "oh, this sounds nice".

Playing a Discipline Priest back in WotLK, I know all about reading the stats wrong (they didn't show absorbs). I still want the stats to know what's going on. And Recount would also protect me when a tank in a PUG would say "suck healer" and I'd post the post-mortem showing the tank stood in a fire.

No, the legal kind that were used by non-hackers. The stuff that parses the combat log, not one of the cheat programs that did packet sniffing.

When the game launched and they first appeared, they were generally run from a 2nd pc, since you couldn't tab out to see them; lat this point, they were quasi legal (later confirmed by soe to be fine, but it was ambiguous initially). Lter, when they made the game run in windowed mode (SoL? ) people would run them on their own machine.

The hacking/cheat programs didn't give you damage meters as far as I'm aware.

There were also things like EQ Watcher (alert system that ran off the combat log) at least as early as 2002 (not sure that link will stay live, it's the wayback entry for their site)

I used EQ watcher to set up audio alters for people talking in guild, and for people /telling me, so that I could hear when someone chatted with me even when I was afk selling in the bazar.

I'd prefer it if you'd stop telling other people how to play the game and just worried about you.

Lots of people enjoy playing the game like a science project.

Back in vanilla WoW we had to go by feeling. And then a fire mage would overaggro Patchwerk, who'd proceed to walk over to the mage and kill a dozen people on the way. Corpse run, buff up, go again. Fun.