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Both sides of the AC respec debate have legitimate points. So what's the answer?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Both sides of the AC respec debate have legitimate points. So what's the answer?

DarthSeidhr's Avatar


DarthSeidhr
01.29.2012 , 01:10 PM | #61
Quote: Originally Posted by LeonBraun View Post
This is not your intention in this thread.

Your intention in this thread is to take a personal gripe that you want to be able to change your own AC because you made a poor decision, and try to stir up the community to back you in asking for a bad change that was not intended for the way the game works.
This is what I told the last person who thought they were a mind reader.

I'm happy you think you know my intent. It must be wonderful to go through life with such an insightful mind. In reality, I'm not personally greatly invested in the idea of AC respecs. Whether AC respec is added will have no bearing on my enjoyment of the game or my decision to continue giving BioWare my money. This is simply an issue that I've seen brought up numerous times in threads that invariably degenerate into back and forth arguments about the same few points. Through my readings of these threads though I have gleaned a some legitimately stated concerns from both sides. I would simply like to make sure there isn't anything I'm missing before I rework my original suggestion.

If I find that new concerns are raised that make the idea of AC respec completely untenable I am more than happy to write that conclusion into my new post. I practice science in the real world, and as such I am always willing to change my mind in the face of new evidence.

Surakis's Avatar


Surakis
01.29.2012 , 01:17 PM | #62
Quote: Originally Posted by LeonBraun View Post
I don't see any argument for being able to change your AC... It's 10 levels (3 hours) of work to get a new AC...

Warlocks in WoW can't change over to become Mages... Sentinels should not be able to become Guardians.
Warlocks and Mages don't start as the same root class in WoW either... and if you are going to use "just re-roll" for the AC issue, then it should be the same for the respec issue.

Surakis's Avatar


Surakis
01.29.2012 , 01:19 PM | #63
Quote: Originally Posted by illgot View Post
You are absolutely right! I mean look at TOR, it's nothing like World of Warcraft! There is absolutely nothing about TOR that says Bioware is trying to copy the success of World of Warcraft...
I heard that Chevy copied Ford and has 4 tires on their cars! Why are they copying them!!!!

Matte_Black's Avatar


Matte_Black
01.29.2012 , 01:29 PM | #64
Quote: Originally Posted by illgot View Post
there is absolutely no replay value in playing a new character with only a different AC.

Except for 1 AC, every other class shares the same armor type and stats as their opposing AC.
"Absolutely no replay value" is overstating it but, if you read closely, I am speaking more to the paradigm BioWare is operating under than stating the point of view as unimpeachable fact or a the right philosophy.

That said, the plot differences you can have through gender, race, alignment, filling your levelling with space runs, additional bonus quests or PvP apparently amount to little to you, which I can respect. Coupled with your signature though, I do sort of wonder if you are hung up on judging SWTOR based on other games or the game you want as opposed to what it is trying to be.
"I really wanted to bring in the three BioWare pillars to the online space. Those are represented by story, by the player's choice in story, and by characters. Those are the three big things that I felt weren't really well represented in the MMO space." - James Ohlen

RobNightfall's Avatar


RobNightfall
01.29.2012 , 01:37 PM | #65
Quote: Originally Posted by Arathea View Post
Concern:
Allowing AC respecs would mean that Bounty Hunter/Trooper or Consular/Inquisitor can switch between healer/tank/dps while the other 2 base classes (and mirrors) can only switch between tank/dps or heal/dps.

Concern:
DPS-Bobby who have played his Marauder to 50 respecing to Jugg and having no idea how to tank in SWTOR.

But as has been stated in this thread. I don't have to give you a reason why AC respecs shouldn't be allowed. It's not. End of story.

It's like asking people to give a reason why people should not be allowed to create lvl 50 fully geared characters. It's not how the game works.
If you really think it's not being considered for a down the road option you're not really thinking. Enough QQ has hit the forums since beta to make it a consideration. I'm not saying they will, I'm not saying they won't, I am saying they will be and most likely already are looking at it. A thread with a true, viable pros and cons list is a logical approach to figuring out whether or not this really is a great idea or a horrible idea, i.e. no knee jerk emotional reactions, no the game will be doomed if posts, etc.

To the OP: sorry I don't have much to add to your original query. If I was BW I'd try it out on the test server with a big post about how respec is an experimental option and we're checking to see how it impacts the game etc. and then sit back and watch for 3-6 months. That way you know what the headaches will be and how much players will actually enjoy or hate it before going fully live with it.
Edited because the devs appear to have fixed at least 80% of the crap that was pissing me off.

SnoggyMack's Avatar


SnoggyMack
01.29.2012 , 01:44 PM | #66
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthSeidhr View Post
What is your concern with AC respec?
Class balance. MMOs have a history rife with nerfs made in the name of class balance. Opening up AC respecs makes it even harder to balance the classes.

Some boundaries do need to be maintained to keep basic gameplay mechanics viable. Class structure in an MMO designed around class structure needs to maintain the boundaries of class structure.

/thread
Snoggy Mack
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DarthSeidhr's Avatar


DarthSeidhr
01.29.2012 , 02:00 PM | #67
Quote: Originally Posted by SnoggyMack View Post
Class balance. MMOs have a history rife with nerfs made in the name of class balance. Opening up AC respecs makes it even harder to balance the classes.

Some boundaries do need to be maintained to keep basic gameplay mechanics viable. Class structure in an MMO designed around class structure needs to maintain the boundaries of class structure.

/thread
This is a point I've not read before. Would you please elaborate on how an AC respec would effect class balance? It seems to me that class balance would be the same with or without AC respec because the eight AC's would still exist, and the player base would still be utilizing all of them concurrently.

mattdell's Avatar


mattdell
01.29.2012 , 02:04 PM | #68
Why is this still being debated? BW said before launch that AC will never be able to be changed. End of story. They make the game, they ultimately decide the rules. Having 15 threads of the same topic does not change that. Choosing your class is something that happens at level 10 in this game, not at the character creation like other MMO's. Get used to it, or perish. Thats the bottom line.

DarthSeidhr's Avatar


DarthSeidhr
01.29.2012 , 02:10 PM | #69
Quote: Originally Posted by mattdell View Post
Why is this still being debated? BW said before launch that AC will never be able to be changed. End of story. They make the game, they ultimately decide the rules. Having 15 threads of the same topic does not change that. Choosing your class is something that happens at level 10 in this game, not at the character creation like other MMO's. Get used to it, or perish. Thats the bottom line.
That's odd. Others have claimed BioWare stated they wanted to allow AC respec sometime after launch, but they weren't sure how to implement it. Can you site a source for your claim? And even if what you say is true it doesn't mean BioWare can't decide to change their mind down the road.

Senatsu's Avatar


Senatsu
01.29.2012 , 02:13 PM | #70
I am against AC respeccing. Don't get me wrong, I completely understand why it's convenient to be able to respec and I even share many of the reasons, but I just don't feel that it's necessary. Choosing your AC should be as important as choosing your class. What you're basically doing when you choose your class is: you pick a base, then you pick a playstyle specialization (AC), then you pick how you want to specify that specialization (talent tree).
Being able to redo your talent trees is one thing, but your AC is just a massive part of your character and it's supposed to change the entire feel of the gameplay for each base-class. Whether you feel BW manage to portray that or not, is irrelevant, but that is at least what they mean by having ACs. If that was not the point, then they wouldn't have ACs in the first place.