Hi Taugrim.

Id like to thank you for the nice vids and information gathering youve done regarding the Vanguard/Powertech class. Its been a pleasure to read/watch through, aswell as feeding ones own ideas with skill builds or tweaks to them.

 

I also find it quite nice that your "Iron Fist" build is a viable success in WZ. Been playing around with the excact same build more or less - though i know ill stick with 2 points in Shield Cycler instead of Smoke Bomb. To damn many hotkey´s for an oldtimer like me .

I must admit i might have picked Containment Tactics over Power Armor - Since i tend to need it while its still on cooldown.

 

But i can see your point with all the passive damage reduction - and with the more or less "new" lvl 50 WZ bracket - more survivability aint a bad thing - especially when i havent reached 50 yet. Lvl 39 atm.

 

All in all, keep up the good work, its appreciated.

Hmm, it is clear that you have a strong grasp of your class, the conditions in PVP, and the way to synergize talents for the maximum given effect. Your video showed an interesting different range of situations and gives the viewer a complete idea of all that your spec is capable of.

 

On the other hand, you did not make a video of your character naked in PVP. Just saying.

So on what stats should I focus with this build?

 

aim>endurance>crit>power>accuray?

 

right now I was all about

 

edurance>aim>defense>absorb>shield

I must admit i might have picked Containment Tactics over Power Armor - Since i tend to need it while its still on cooldown.

 

Understood, spec'ing is all about tradeoffs.

 

I used Containment Tactics while leveling from 10-49 PVP, but I found that once I got the PBAoE stun Neural Surge, the talent became less valuable.

 

But i can see your point with all the passive damage reduction - and with the more or less "new" lvl 50 WZ bracket - more survivability aint a bad thing - especially when i havent reached 50 yet. Lvl 39 atm.

 

Keep in mind that talents such as Power Armor are not affected by diminishing returns, and mitigation becomes more valuable the more you have.

 

Without points in the two 2% mitigation talents, my mitigation against Energy and Kinetic attacks is 45.5% from Armor and the tanking stance, so I suffer 54.5 points of damage out of every 100.

 

With Iron Fist, the mitigation increases to 49.5%, so I suffer 50.5 points of damage out of every 100.

 

Which means that a non-IF tank spec is going to take 7.9% (4 / 50.5) more damage than an IF build. The difference is significant and very noticeable in PVP.

 

By the same token, the damage that a non-IF spec takes from Elemental and Internal damage compared to an IF spec is > 4%.

 

I.e. non-IF in tank stance has 5% mitigation against those damage types, and IF has 9%. So 95 damage taken vs 91 damage taken, or an increase of 4.4%.

 

When you factor in the +10% mitigation buff from Sages (I think it's theirs), the gap between non-IF and IF tank specs widens to 4.9% (4 / 81).

 

And the above percentages again increase when you factor in the 4% damage debuff we apply to opponents with Ion Pulse and Explosive Surge.

Edited January 29, 2012 by taugrimtaugrim

So on what stats should I focus with this build?

 

aim>endurance>crit>power>accuray?

 

right now I was all about

 

edurance>aim>defense>absorb>shield

 

For Iron Fist, you want to focus on offensive stats not defensive ones, especially with the limitations for Defense, Shield Chance / Absorption in PVP.

 

This is all covered in my in-depth Guide.

 

Here is a link to the relevant section for PVP stats:

http://taugrim.com/2012/01/04/guide-to-bounty-hunter-powertech-trooper-vanguard-mechanics-and-pvp#stats

 

And here is a link to my article on the limitations for Defense and Shield mechanics in PVP, which was also stickied on the SWTOR tanking forum:

http://taugrim.com/2012/01/19/understanding-swtors-avoidance-and-mitigation-mechanics-for-tanks-in-pvp/

You mentioned something about the endurance stim, but would you consider the crit stim in some situations? As for adrenals, I assume you prefer crit?

Sticky

I've been holding off spending my BM commendations until I finalised on a build. I currently run assault/tactics quite effectively. One of the key reasons for holding off buying BM gear is I'm curious about running an ion cell/guard build, like this one, and then wondering if it better to run a BM Supercommando set bonus with the lower mods replaced with crit/surge/power. That is, 5% boost to the damage of anything while guard is active. Thoughts? Edited January 29, 2012 by Fafryd

You mentioned something about the endurance stim, but would you consider the crit stim in some situations?

 

It depends on your stats.

 

Crit Rating as with all secondary stats have diminishing returns. Endurance scales HP linearly. There's a part in my Guide where I talk about soft caps and link to some good info about stats DR.

Edited January 29, 2012 by taugrimtaugrim

I'm curious about running an ion cell/guard build, like this one, and then wondering if it better to run a BM Supercommando set bonus with the lower mods replaced with crit/surge/power. That is, 5% boost to the damage of anything while guard is active. Thoughts?

 

What I plan to do when I hit Valor 60 (three more to go) is buy the BM Combat Tech pieces and remaining BM pieces from CT, Elim, and Medic depending on the stats. Eventually when I have a full set of offensive gear for my IF spec, I'll pick up 4 set pieces of Supercommando to experiment with swapping out the Defense/Shield-related mods for DPS ones.

 

The 4-pc set bonus for the tanking set is really good for group play but what I am unclear on is whether the bonus applies when your Guarded friendly is > 15m away.

I've been curious on that limitation also - would be more comforting if it said while ion cell is active. I guess a Supercommando 4pc set equipped player could test it in Ilum pretty easily by guarding a target, testing baseline damage and then moving that guarded player away before testing damage again. I have Eliminator and CT armor but not Supercommando so cannot test it myself (I may have enough spare commendations to buy it and try though if I found a friendly Imp).

I've been curious on that limitation also - would be more comforting if it said while ion cell is active. I guess a Supercommando 4pc set equipped player could test it in Ilum pretty easily by guarding a target, testing baseline damage and then moving that guarded player away before testing damage again. I have Eliminator and CT armor but not Supercommando so cannot test it myself (I may have enough spare commendations to buy it and try though if I found a friendly Imp).

 

Yea what I may do if I get enough duplicate Champ drops is get 4-pc Supercommando just to find out.

 

If the answer is yes you get the bonus even when you are > 15m from your Guarded target, you could even do things while soloing such as Guard an NPC in a spawn point before heading out into Ilum to fight.

I've been thinking about going into this build for a while now, but I'm trying to figure out how this build would be better than the Parakeet.

 

How would you say this build stacks up against the Carolina Parakeet?

 

The Parakeet build offers a ranged DoT (handy for objective modes), and the ability to apply multiple HIBs one right after another. Would you say the utility offered by going down the Tactics tree offers more benefits?

I tried this build. I didn't like it.

 

I like having 2 percent mitigation in shield tree and 2 percent mitigation in the tactics tree. I generally agree that 2 seconds off riot strike cd is great.

 

That said, I feel like it is way less damage than 23/0/18 or 21/2/18. You have nothing good to use when you are further than 10m away. You get a bit more mitigation with 25/14/2 - 2 percent more, but you give up way too much. If you go 18 into assault you have to waste some points buffing plasma cell but you get a ranged attack that prevents node caps for 15 seconds and allows you to use HIB. You also get free HIB's that will hit for 3k or more.

 

The biggest problem with tactics is that Gut is so meh...

 

I'm 8/2/31 right now. My highest hit in every warzone is 4,000 to 4,500. Often times an Assault Plastique will crit at the same time as a Stockstrike or a High Impact Bolt. If those things occur at the same time you can literally do 10k damage in 2 seconds.

 

I'm finding there are few players/characters that burst well in this game. Operatives/Scoundrels can and we can. We have way more utility and survive better. I rolling with only 16k health right now because I've been pulling crit/surge enhancements out of champion pieces and putting them in my combat tech set. However, I still feel like I'm contributing more because I'm the guy that can actually kill a healer.

 

Always appreciate your work Taugrim. I tried this spec out and it wasn't for me.

 

Battlemaster Hayduke Smith

INFANTRY

Adjunta Pall

Hey, met you briefly on rift on the sunrest server.

 

Anyways I decided to pick up this spec (except I tweaked it a bit) because my vanguards finally getting some more gear, and I really haven't seen another tanking class beat me in dmg and protection since.

 

 

Also I was wondering, what has been your top protection? I'm not to geared and i hit 132k, but I have yet to see another tank hit that amount. IDK if its because I switch around guard religiously or what, but i was wondering what your top was since your obviously further along gear wise than I am.

 

 

TY again for the build, poor sith hate it

Edited January 30, 2012 by Shaady

Interested in trying this spec, but feel hamstrung by my choice to get the Elim set. I feel as though with the 4 piece set, I need to get 18 in assault. Would you feel the Elim set with this would not be as efficient as the 21/2/18?

Can you tank PvE content with this build, though? And I know that Absorption isn't really useful in PvP as the shield doesn't really work with a whole lot of damage types, but is it any useful in PvE?

 

FWIW, I tanked my first SWTOR instance tonight, Hard-Mode Directive 7, with this build and only 3 pieces with tanking stats (Champ legs and weapon, Centurion shield offhand), and it went fine once we got the boss fight mechanics down.

 

It's not optimal for PVE tanking, but it looks like it works.

Thx for this thread Taugrim.

If the answer is yes you get the bonus even when you are > 15m from your Guarded target, you could even do things while soloing such as Guard an NPC in a spawn point before heading out into Ilum to fight.

 

Played around with dueling a jedi consular in Ilum orbital station to try to test this over about 30 minutes. Wasn't an expansive test and 5% bonus translates to a reasonably small change. However, we both concluded that it appears that the range to the guarded target doesn't matter.

Played around with dueling a jedi consular in Ilum orbital station to try to test this over about 30 minutes. Wasn't an expansive test and 5% bonus translates to a reasonably small change. However, we both concluded that it appears that the range to the guarded target doesn't matter.

 

Thanks Fafryd for confirming this!

Taugrim, try this versino instead.

 

rebraced armor >>>> oil slick.

 

I used to think armor was meh but it is quite surprising how useful it is. Dropping the pointless oil slick and 2% elemental damage is easily worth 16% more armor.

 

It may also be worth dropping gut for blaster augs.

Taugrim, try this versino instead.

 

rebraced armor >>>> oil slick.

 

I used to think armor was meh but it is quite surprising how useful it is. Dropping the pointless oil slick and 2% elemental damage is easily worth 16% more armor.

 

It may also be worth dropping gut for blaster augs.

 

Despite the already very defensive way of this build, i think you "might" be right about the Rebraced armor points. Still i guess it comes down to 2% more dmg or 16% armor ( 4% more survivability more or less, right? )

 

Though without Inciendary Round, you dont want to loose out on the Gut dot. Especially for the PvP encounters. Those dots can win the day

Understood, spec'ing is all about tradeoffs.

 

I used Containment Tactics while leveling from 10-49 PVP, but I found that once I got the PBAoE stun Neural Surge, the talent became less valuable.

 

 

 

Keep in mind that talents such as Power Armor are not affected by diminishing returns, and mitigation becomes more valuable the more you have.

 

Without points in the two 2% mitigation talents, my mitigation against Energy and Kinetic attacks is 45.5% from Armor and the tanking stance, so I suffer 54.5 points of damage out of every 100.

 

With Iron Fist, the mitigation increases to 49.5%, so I suffer 50.5 points of damage out of every 100.

 

Which means that a non-IF tank spec is going to take 7.9% (4 / 50.5) more damage than an IF build. The difference is significant and very noticeable in PVP.

 

By the same token, the damage that a non-IF spec takes from Elemental and Internal damage compared to an IF spec is > 4%.

 

I.e. non-IF in tank stance has 5% mitigation against those damage types, and IF has 9%. So 95 damage taken vs 91 damage taken, or an increase of 4.4%.

 

When you factor in the +10% mitigation buff from Sages (I think it's theirs), the gap between non-IF and IF tank specs widens to 4.9% (4 / 81).

 

And the above percentages again increase when you factor in the 4% damage debuff we apply to opponents with Ion Pulse and Explosive Surge.

 

Thanks for the feedback Taugrim - Oh yea i can see what you mean with Neural Surge - seing as i was only 39 then - 42 now - i havent had the pleasure of having that skill yet

 

Nice with the whole run down with the mitigation and all. Still lvling as full Assault though - class quests etc seems to go on abit faster Stay cheary!

Edited January 30, 2012 by Soulmourne

Just curious as a new player, currently lvl 12, is this a viable leveling spec? I would like to of course do my class quests, and mix in some FP tanking, and PvP. Thanks.

and so far, so good. I'm currently the MT of my guild, wearing an eclectic mix of three supercommando champion, all the accessories sans relics, best PVE chest and gloves money can buy (can't get any decent drops PVE or PVP...) and my tech champ. helm.

 

My build before was a little inefficient, so this helped me transfer points back into the right places. It's definitely a great PVP offensive tanking build. You only lose mitigation with a hit in shield rating and the minor hit in armor, but it's not that bad in PVP since it's hard to min/max shield rating already as the sup.com. gear seems to favor absorption. Wouldn't recommend it for PVE, but I'm kinda over PVE anyway.