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No, You May Not Roll on Items for Another Class and Strip Out the Mods

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
No, You May Not Roll on Items for Another Class and Strip Out the Mods

PjPablo's Avatar


PjPablo
01.28.2012 , 10:53 PM | #191
Quote: Originally Posted by AsheraII View Post
Cosmetics improve the way a player presents his character to other players. In case you didn't notice, this is an MMO, which supposedly is a rather social form of gaming. This isn't spreadsheets are us. Even your min/maxing behaviour isn't really necessary within this game. Though a real min/maxer would've had those exact same mods already, preferrably in purple too.
Utility should ALWAYS trump cosmetic appeal. The gear is there to help characters progress, to beat ever difficult content. If this were Project Runway Online I would be on board with selecting gear based on look.

ispanolfw's Avatar


ispanolfw
01.28.2012 , 11:02 PM | #192
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthKhaos View Post
You still believe i'm making this statement for myself. If you roll need for looks on an item that wasn't designed for your class (stats, armor class etc) over anyone (don't have to be me) who's playing a class that it was designed for AND it's an upgrade then you are acting like a greedy selfish person.
If that person is ok with you rolling then it's fine but you wouldn't know that without asking. I have passed on stuff that was an upgrade for me for other people for several reasons. Small upgrade, I won a couple times and I figured to let others win something even though they themselves can't use they would like for their companion etc. But all these people asked instead believing they can do as they please with total disregard for anyone else in the party be it myself or someone else.

THAT is not mature behavior and THAT is why World of Warcraft treats you like a child and have to force the right behavior onto you because you seem to not have learnt it on your own.
And yet it is still opinion. Your way of playing, which may even be the majority should not trump someone elses way of playing. Unless BioWare states that is how it should be, or changes the system to reflect that, it will still be an opinion. And you still think I do this, I don;t I have my own way of doing things, passing to people who get more benefit and such. But the system is still what it is, until it is changed or BioWare states otherwise.

ispanolfw's Avatar


ispanolfw
01.28.2012 , 11:08 PM | #193
Quote: Originally Posted by PjPablo View Post
Utility should ALWAYS trump cosmetic appeal. The gear is there to help characters progress, to beat ever difficult content. If this were Project Runway Online I would be on board with selecting gear based on look.
So you put that gear there? You are the one who makes the decision on what people are allowed to need on when they helped down a boss?

Really people, i'm not telling you to go roll on everything just because you can. I'm not telling you to change your way of playing. I'm saying that yours isn't the only way, and telling others they have to follow that way is the most selfish position there is. BioWare, ie the people who made this game, are the ones who decide the way it works. They made it rather neutral and equally fair for all parties who helped beat an encounter. We are the ones who make restrictions beyond that. But when you want to force YOUR restrictions on someone else, by not telling them those restrictions beforehand, YOU are the one being immature.

You expect everyone to feel your way is right and mature and whatnot. Keyword being expect. And yet you say "you shouldn't roll need on that item because it's a big upgrade for him but you only want it for looks" Do you know what that sounds like to that person? It sounds like you're telling them they're wrong and less important than the other person. You're telling them to forfeit their entitled roll that the system gives them so someone else has a better or guaranteed chance at an item.

And i've seen it many times before. You go in for an item for looks, but someone needs for stats. Fine. You go again, same issue, again, same issue, again, same issue. Repeat as many times as you like. Might you get it eventually? Possibly, but still, someone telling you, you are not allowed to roll, is the epitome of selfishness.

PjPablo's Avatar


PjPablo
01.28.2012 , 11:13 PM | #194
Quote: Originally Posted by ispanolfw View Post
So you put that gear there? You are the one who makes the decision on what people are allowed to need on when they helped down a boss?

Really people, i'm not telling you to go roll on everything just because you can. I'm not telling you to change your way of playing. I'm saying that yours isn't the only way, and telling others they have to follow that way is the most selfish position there is. BioWare, ie the people who made this game, are the ones who decide the way it works. They made it rather neutral and equally fair for all parties who helped beat an encounter. We are the ones who make restrictions beyond that. But when you want to force YOUR restrictions on someone else, by not telling them those restrictions beforehand, YOU are the one being immature.

You expect everyone to feel your way is right and mature and whatnot. Keyword being expect. And yet you say "you shouldn't roll need on that item because it's a big upgrade for him but you only want it for looks" Do you know what that sounds like to that person? It sounds like you're telling them they're wrong and less important than the other person. You're telling them to forfeit their entitled roll that the system gives them so someone else has a better or guaranteed chance at an item.

And i've seen it many times before. You go in for an item for looks, but someone needs for stats. Fine. You go again, same issue, again, same issue, again, same issue. Repeat as many times as you like. Might you get it eventually? Possibly, but still, someone telling you, you are not allowed to roll, is the epitome of selfishness.
Do you honestly believe if a piece of gear drops and for Player A it is an upgrade and Player B just wants it for looks that Player B should have as much right to that piece of gear? If so, I guess we disagree on the purpose of gear in MMOs.

At the end of the day it all comes back to whatever the loot rules are at the time. In my group you wouldn't be rolling Need and in your group perhaps you would. To each his or her own.

gurugeorge's Avatar


gurugeorge
01.28.2012 , 11:14 PM | #195
Quote: Originally Posted by ispanolfw View Post
Unfortunately the system is designed in such a way to give everyone the same chance to roll on something.
What???? The point of a Need/Greed roll is that the chances are different.

This is the way a Need/Greed system normally works, AFAIK:-

Everyone gets a roll, but the rolls for people who click Need ar prioritized over the Greed rolls. That means, everyone actually does have a chance to get the item, whether they clicked Need or Greed, but people who click Need have a higher chance.

IOW, it is theoretically possible to win an item with a Greed roll if someone else has rolled Need, just highly unlikely.

If this isn't the system BW have implemented, then it's not standard so far as I am aware.

Clarification BW?

DarthKhaos's Avatar


DarthKhaos
01.28.2012 , 11:14 PM | #196
Quote: Originally Posted by ispanolfw View Post
And yet it is still opinion. Your way of playing, which may even be the majority should not trump someone elses way of playing. Unless BioWare states that is how it should be, or changes the system to reflect that, it will still be an opinion. And you still think I do this, I don;t I have my own way of doing things, passing to people who get more benefit and such. But the system is still what it is, until it is changed or BioWare states otherwise.
I pity you and the people you interact with. You ignore simple codes of conducts and English definitions of the words "need" and "greed" for your own selfish wants and hide behind the statement (because it's so flimsy it can't even be construed as an argument) that BioWare didn't say it should be so.

I truly wish you learn how to interact with people in the future and think of someone other than yourself. I'm done with you period.
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F2P? NO THANKS
CANCELLED
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ispanolfw's Avatar


ispanolfw
01.28.2012 , 11:16 PM | #197
Quote: Originally Posted by PjPablo View Post
Do you honestly believe if a piece of gear drops and for Player A it is an upgrade and Player B just wants it for looks that Player B should have as much right to that piece of gear? If so, I guess we disagree on the purpose of gear in MMOs.

At the end of the day it all comes back to whatever the loot rules are at the time. In my group you wouldn't be rolling Need and in your group perhaps you would. To each his or her own.
THERE, that's what I mean, your opinion is not absolute. And if you set those rules beforehand no issue whatsoever. You can blacklist the guy if he breaks those rules, badmouth him, I don;t care, he broke the agreement.

And no, we don;t disagree, I prioritize stats over looks, smaller gap in this game with the given orange system. But I know plenty of others who feel looks are FAR more important.

ispanolfw's Avatar


ispanolfw
01.28.2012 , 11:17 PM | #198
Quote: Originally Posted by gurugeorge View Post
What???? The point of a Need/Greed roll is that the chances are different.

This is the way a Need/Greed system normally works, AFAIK:-

Everyone gets a roll, but the rolls for people who click Need ar prioritized over the Greed rolls. That means, everyone actually does have a chance to get the item, whether they clicked Need or Greed, but people who click Need have a higher chance.

IOW, it is theoretically possible to win an item with a Greed roll if someone else has rolled Need, just highly unlikely.

If this isn't the system BW have implemented, then it's not standard so far as I am aware.

Clarification BW?
If only one person hits need and gets 1, that will win over any greeds.

ispanolfw's Avatar


ispanolfw
01.28.2012 , 11:22 PM | #199
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthKhaos View Post
I pity you and the people you interact with. You ignore simple codes of conducts and English definitions of the words "need" and "greed" for your own selfish wants and hide behind the statement (because it's so flimsy it can't even be construed as an argument) that BioWare didn't say it should be so.

I truly wish you learn how to interact with people in the future and think of someone other than yourself. I'm done with you period.
Wow, you really do not read, do you? I don't roll on everything just because I can, I don't roll on something JUST for the looks without thinking about it. I actually check the other person's gear out to see if it helps them more than me before even hitting a button. Learn what ones opinion on the system vs what the system actually is before making that statement.

But for your enjoyment.

Need
1.
a requirement, necessary duty, or obligation: There is no need for you to go there.
2.
a lack of something wanted or deemed necessary: to fulfill the needs of the assignment.
3.
urgent want, as of something requisite: He has no need of your charity.
4.
necessity arising from the circumstances of a situation or case: There is no need to worry.
5.
a situation or time of difficulty; exigency: to help a friend in need; to be a friend in need.

The thing is, this is a game. Nothing is truly a need. It's all wants since none are necessary. So when it comes down to that need is relative. IE You need it for the stats, they need it for their outfit, and Joe Schmoe needs it for his companion. You do not define what they need, BioWare has not stated they only need certain things, it's up to the player to decide what he or she needs. If you want to restrict those choices during a run for others, and say nothing before hand, YOU are the one in the wrong since nothing was said the only "rule" that can be fell back upon is the basic rule of how the system works.

gurugeorge's Avatar


gurugeorge
01.28.2012 , 11:29 PM | #200
Quote: Originally Posted by ispanolfw View Post
If BioWare had no intended it, they would not have implemented it.
If BioWare had intended everyone to have the same chance for gear and roll for what they wanted, they would not have implemented a Need/Greed system, they would have implemented a straight roll.

In the system, "Need" pertains to the class of the character you play in the instance, i.e. what that class, objectively "needs".

From the game manual:

When the group picks up a unique item, by default, all members have the opportunity to roll for the item. When an item is put up for a roll, a window appears displaying the item. A green meter counts down how much time you have to roll for the item. Select NEED or GREED to roll for the item, and a random number is generated for every group member. The player with the highest number is awarded the item. If you want a good chance at securing the item, select NEED. Otherwise, choose GREED if you want to give the other members a better chance at obtaining the item.