No, You May Not Roll on Items for Another Class and Strip Out the Mods

i kinda agree with all the points here, except the one about needing for mods. if a custom chest drops, but the stats are overall worse then my chest, that dosen't mean that it won't increase my stats by a LOT should i take the mods out and mix them between my entire set of gear. i have been flames for doing this before. (despite the fact that the player who flames me wasn't my class, and the player of my class in the group was in my guild and was perfectly fine with me needing for this reason (it is afterall a big increase in stats for me)). i also got flames under similar circumstances, when i needed on a lower body peice, that was an upgrade for my current lower body piece, because i "didn't equip it immediately", when what i had done was strip the mods out and put them, en-masse into my current lower body piece. i think it is unfair that i shopuld get flamed, for needing on pieces that upgrade my stats, simply because i wish to keep the same apperance (and keeping a full set of custom gear statistically up to date is a lot more challenging than just replaing your gear every time a new bit drops, without getting flamed every time you need for mod upgrades).

First, not necessarily directed at just you, just woke up and picked a post to reply to.

Considering all the bashing about people being antisocial, greedy, entitled and the like. You can guarantee they will? Don't get me wrong, i'm the type that passes for people who get a bigger stat upgrade out of it and the like. But who am "I" to say my stat upgrade is more important than their looks upgrade or companion upgrade. You or anyone else here can look at it any way they like, but that will never make your wants more important than someone elses. NEVER. They prefer looks over stats at the cost of slower progression? They get more benefit in the bulk of their gameplay by upgrading their companion with good gear? Who are these people who feel it's ok to just TRAMPLE on that because they FEEL this person is wrong and they are right?

Because from the practical PoV stats>aesthetics.

I may be fat, grey and balding, but you give me a pink Tutu with good stats and I can still stomp a mudhole in your a**

(eww ..the visual )

It is for that reason that I operate under this simple MO.
- If it is a direct upgrade for me, Need.
- If someone rolls need on it (and it makes sense for them to roll on it), pass.
- If no one needs it, greed.

Simple as that and thankfully it seems most people on my server follow rules similar to this so it has yet to be a problem. If however we run into a person that isn't as courteous and the rules were not agreed upon before hand we will bring it up with him if the majority of the group is not interested in what he is doing kick him. If the rules were agreed upon before hand and he breaks them anyway kick them immediately.

Yes, there is. There's even a button for me to press that says "need" on it. If I need it, then I need it and someone like you isn't going to tell me otherwise.

And that view still doesn't give you any right to tell someone who plays for looks over stats they are wrong. Especially since the orange item system emphasizes looks. You can set rules before hand to try and avoid the people with differing views, but otherwise all parties will have to deal with it if they do not wish to speak up.

I'm betting you're in the minority with that opinion.

You really want that "special" look ..fine ..greed on it. If you lose the roll you will have other opportunities to get it. The stat a player needs at that time only comes at that time.

I feel perfectly fine with this thought:

If you join a PUG and want to roll need on anything ("everything") you can, you should then state it beforehand and see if you can get your way with it.

Doing otherwise doesn't constitute exploitation of a game feature, but it's certainly an abuse of other people good faith.

Ok, IMO this is a delicate issue. On one hand, yeah, you should be able to roll on whatever you want to roll on. On the other hand, the need/greed system was built for a reason. Common sense dictates that if you want an item not built for your class because you want to sell/replace the modifications, you do not NEED the item, so you SHOULD do a greed roll. Same thing if you want it for your companion, that's really a greed roll, not need. People who roll need on items they DON'T need make the game a lot less fun because they take items that other members of their group actually DO need. Personally, I don't think there should be a rule against it, but any way you look at it, because of the way the system is built and designed to give an advantage to people who need the item over those who just want it, it is very rude to click need when you someone else in your group needs it more. So, If you're running a group with 3 Sith and an agent, and come across bounty hunter stuff, I say it's free game, but if in that same situation, it's 2 Sith, a bounty hunter and an agent, please let the bounty hunter have the first crack. That's just etiquette.

Increased stats for your PC=Need
Increased stats for Companion=Greed
Stripping mods for sale=Greed
Replacing mods because you think the item looks cooler than what you have=Definitely Greed

You see what the difference is? The system was built that way for a reason. So, should it be against the rules to click Need on something you don't need or cross class items? No. But it is rude, and I don't see why anyone should have to put up with it, if they don't want to. IMO it is a perfectly valid reason to boot a PC from a group, and refuse to group with them for future missions.

And you fail to understand the purpose and function of a Need/Greed system.

And I say this as someone to whom appearance is almost as important as stats, etc.

The word "Need" doesn't apply to you, the player, in vacuo, it applies to you the player as the player specifically in control of the the class that you are playing that helped your team win the instance or down the boss.

The stats on the item are either "needed" by the class you are playing or not. There is no "if","and"or "but" about it - it is pure numbers, pure logic, it's absolutely inexorable, there's no way of squirming out of it.

IOW, you should not (if presented with a Need/Greed roll) be asking yourself "Do I as a player of SWTOR Need this?" But "Does this character's class that I'm playing Need this?"

If it doesn't, then all the thousands of other reasons why you might want the item - companion, appearance, selling, etc., come under the heading of "Greed."

Well, I amend that slightly, there's some wiggle room for Companions in a game like this in which Companions feature so heavily. If you use a companion in the instance (i.e. if it was 3 players plus your Companion), then I think it's tolerable to have an option for "Companion Need".