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Kinetic Ward/ Dark Ward


Pijinz's Avatar


Pijinz
01.26.2012 , 06:49 PM | #31
I think what Harwel means is that you can only lose 1 charge per GCD maximum, but that the 15% applies to every attack so long as you have at least 1 charge remaining. That does in a sense keep the "charges" mechanic while fixing AoE problems. It's not my prefered solution, but I would accept it.

LordXalas's Avatar


LordXalas
01.26.2012 , 06:53 PM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by Harwel View Post
Oh really? Explain how it doesn't give you 100% uptime on trash pulls or focus fire situations, which is supposedly your complaint. I want to hear this.
cause what you are applying just makes the charges useless in general. only removes a charge ever 1.5 sec regardless how many times i shield? With that alone the charges looses its meaning. Ill keep your idea of keeping it by pressing it everytime but remove the charges completely.

But then if we do that why just not make it a toggle or a passive while we are at it? That way i can just tank like any other tank but keeps my eyes open on buffs for project/shock and harnessed shadow/darkness.
DDE

SexualZergling's Avatar


SexualZergling
01.26.2012 , 08:37 PM | #33
I think that Sin Tanks have a Wealth of options for reducing damage in large pulls. Deflection is just one of our CD tools.
  • Force Shroud (100% chance to resist force/tech attacks). Underutilized as a buffer for absorbing the initial pull's damage. 60sec cd.
  • Dark Charges Discharge+Whither +5% avoidance and +5%mitigation available immediately.
  • Overcharge Sabre +5% heal is the equivalent to another 5% mitigation. 120sec cd.
  • Deflection. 120sec cd.

Are you saying, that with all these options, our 'Always up' Dark ward needs to be more powerful? What steps do you take to avoid running out of charges, other than your CD's?

Do you LoS ranged? Do you Mind trap/force pull victims out of your aoe?

LordXalas's Avatar


LordXalas
01.26.2012 , 09:01 PM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by SexualZergling View Post
I think that Sin Tanks have a Wealth of options for reducing damage in large pulls. Deflection is just one of our CD tools.
  • Force Shroud (100% chance to resist force/tech attacks). Underutilized as a buffer for absorbing the initial pull's damage. 60sec cd.
  • Dark Charges Discharge+Whither +5% avoidance and +5%mitigation available immediately.
  • Overcharge Sabre +5% heal is the equivalent to another 5% mitigation. 120sec cd.
  • Deflection. 120sec cd.

Are you saying, that with all these options, our 'Always up' Dark ward needs to be more powerful? What steps do you take to avoid running out of charges, other than your CD's?

Do you LoS ranged? Do you Mind trap/force pull victims out of your aoe?
I do all those. The thing is other tanks have all the same things. my vanguards does all what you just mentioned but better minus the heals. Discharge is only 5% compared to my vanguards 20%. Wither is just an ion pulse on vanguards. Deflection is just Overcharge Shield on my vanguard. I have all these things plus a static shield chance that never drops. The only thing we have other is the heals and really it isn't really much to be "well we got heals" comment.

Vanguards also get a pull and a leap. All i want is just to have a static shield chance is all. Just make DW/KW passive like the other tanks.
DDE

Zilod's Avatar


Zilod
01.27.2012 , 01:24 AM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by SexualZergling View Post
I think that Sin Tanks have a Wealth of options for reducing damage in large pulls. Deflection is just one of our CD tools.
  • Force Shroud (100% chance to resist force/tech attacks). Underutilized as a buffer for absorbing the initial pull's damage. 60sec cd.
  • Dark Charges Discharge+Whither +5% avoidance and +5%mitigation available immediately.
  • Overcharge Sabre +5% heal is the equivalent to another 5% mitigation. 120sec cd.
  • Deflection. 120sec cd.

Are you saying, that with all these options, our 'Always up' Dark ward needs to be more powerful? What steps do you take to avoid running out of charges, other than your CD's?

Do you LoS ranged? Do you Mind trap/force pull victims out of your aoe?
i saw a few people mention force shround (that is an awesome skill) but it doesnt necessary do much in the situations where dark ward pop in seconds. force attacks dont have chance to get shielded, and for tech attacks it depends

if the shield goes down from aoe pulls with mosty weapon dmg skills (eg the small dinos in ev lava cave) force shround is not going to do much.


and btw, my pt have his cds too, and on top of that he have more mitigaton and his shield buff is passive :P to say that dark ward is fine or sin is fine in aoe pull due to his cds is kinda pointles because every tank class have cds

LordXalas's Avatar


LordXalas
01.27.2012 , 09:03 AM | #36
Quote: Originally Posted by Zilod View Post
i saw a few people mention force shround (that is an awesome skill) but it doesnt necessary do much in the situations where dark ward pop in seconds. force attacks dont have chance to get shielded, and for tech attacks it depends

if the shield goes down from aoe pulls with mosty weapon dmg skills (eg the small dinos in ev lava cave) force shround is not going to do much.


and btw, my pt have his cds too, and on top of that he have more mitigaton and his shield buff is passive :P to say that dark ward is fine or sin is fine in aoe pull due to his cds is kinda pointles because every tank class have cds
^^ this

Saying we have CDs is pointless since other tanks have them as well put they do the job better then we do.
DDE

Windkull's Avatar


Windkull
01.27.2012 , 11:57 AM | #37
We might have to blow CDs on some trash where other tanks don't but... Who cares, they're short enough to be up for the boss anyway...

That said!

I still like more charges and less cooldown as a solution because then on bosses you don't have to refresh as often but on trash you can spam refresh to keep it up as a tradeoff of losing force for damage.

Anyway, our shield is not just a bit higher than the other classes, it is much much higher with +20%...

Harwel's Avatar


Harwel
01.27.2012 , 02:47 PM | #38
Quote: Originally Posted by LordXalas View Post
cause what you are applying just makes the charges useless in general. only removes a charge ever 1.5 sec regardless how many times i shield? With that alone the charges looses its meaning. Ill keep your idea of keeping it by pressing it everytime but remove the charges completely.

But then if we do that why just not make it a toggle or a passive while we are at it? That way i can just tank like any other tank but keeps my eyes open on buffs for project/shock and harnessed shadow/darkness.
Actually the charges still mean you have to pay attention to it to make the best use of timing refreshing when you're tanking a boss, who may or may not eat all the charges before the duration is up.

The ability costs 10 force. Take a five minute boss fight. If you refresh every 12 seconds regardless of charges, you spend 250 force on refreshing Dark Ward over the course of the fight. If you refresh every, lets say average 19 seconds because you watch your charges, you spend under ~160 force over the course of the fight, so that's 90-ish force that can be used to do other things.

That may not sound like a lot, but coming from a game where I would tweak things to gain an extra 50 dps when I'm already doing 25,000, I like being able to tweak stuff like that. Granted it's not for everyone, and that's fine.

I guess I also like "fussy" mechanics. The only spec I liked to play in WoW was feral dps and I had the most fun when that spec was at its absolute least forgiving.