PvP - How it is ...deal with it

On topic, once again you Delavger (sorry on the butcher) stated that:

IF you remove expertise from gear battlemaster gear's stats still trump entry level gear.

How does that not sounds like there is apart of the solution within your bickering?

No expertise=less of disparity (but as you stated STILL A REWARDED DISPARITY) between "tiers" of PvP efficiency. both parties compromised, both hated expertise, and deep six'd it..lol

could've put a resiliance like stat on raid gear, but then people wouldn't need to grind for pvp gear.

Expertise has nothing to do with gear disparity, it was just an example to show that the underlying problem is gear, not expertise. Basically stating that if you remove expertise, you don't solve your issue.

EDIT:
For that reason you cannot remove expertise WITHOUT removing gear from PvP all together or preventing "non-pvp" gear in PvP.

Read about some of the overhaul Rift continues to do to try to bring it's dead PvP back to life. TLDR: people don't like repeatedly getting destroyed in PvP. They will not pay their dues. They will just stop doing that type of PvP.

It does not matter how justified someone thinks their rewards/advantages are. You can't PvP if you don't have people to PvP against.

2nd edit: @ Elathan (butcher with names sry)

I tend to lean more on your side of the argument but not every DISCUSSION on a FORUM is about/nor made by whining kids or people that have no lives.

I hate it when developers crack and just nerf this that (even though I still own with my smuggler, quote me im elite haha) or drastic overhauls that neglects big parts of the playerbase. Let's avoid sweeping generalizations about who or what generation is to blame for whatever ruined anything.

Let's start with this post and any all subsequent posts to attempt ignore those that complain aimlessly complain OR ATTEMPT to illustrate the facts if you see differently.

By calling a generation of people whining babies or that certain mmoers are of a gilded age and everything is on a platter, it only putting you in the same category

complaints about complainers

tldy ---stay positive and you will see positivity around you

Funny how forums devolve to, you didn't read what I said, no you!

I've read your posts, I'll keep it short because this issue isn't only of yours and mine.

Expertise increases healing done, damage, and reduces damage. no other stat in this game balls out of control like that.

You yourself stated removal of expertise gear would only mean that top tier PvPers (with the gear to prove it) would only heal for less, take more dmg, and deal less dmg (BUT STILL OWN as you say)

As long as when taking expertise out, battlemaster gear's remaining stats are balanced COMPETITIVELY with top tier raid gear then all I see is an ADDITION of players making more PvP and more fun.

I reckon most good pvper's will say a game like guild wars, why do I think that? because it truly is a level playing field, the only difference between player A and B is their own choices, everyone has the same options to choose from be it stats or gear or what skills are on your bar and the fight is all about the application of these skills, that's where you find out who is who, theres no player B who can't really play but has far better gear camping new level 20's there, the players who can't really play in a game like gw don't play pvp for very long because they are not very good at it.

But even guild wars has its problems its by no means an ideal system, it's prone to groups of folk who think they are "elite" just because it says so on their 75k armour and this week's "BEST EVER BUILD" and anyone who doesn't use it is a "NOOB LOLZ" or some such it's hard for new players that are good to get involved in the pvp scene there because too many people think they know it all and forgot what it was like for them when they just installed the game, new players feel unable to ask questions about the game due to the tiade of abuse that follows, theres probably a lot of people playing SWTOR right now who are frightened to ask for advice.

Remove a stat? why? people will find something else to complain about, THAT is the problem right there, it's not the games, its the people who are playing them, the only fault that games companies have is to pander to ever whim of the console generation, who want maximum reward for minimum effort, the vocal minority of player B's, who yesterday were grinding new guys and today being camped by the same people who remembered yesterday, these people complain the loudest and in the grand scheme of things are the least relevant, yet for some reason nearly every MMO I've played has been ruined by the company listening to these fools who all have the same argument "I went into PVP and got killed, It's not fair"

Bottom line is if you join pvp there is a chance your toon might lose his health, if your the sort of person who can't handle that without freaking out then PVP is not the place for you.

The first few days of pvp here was fine, teams full of good players trying their best to achieve the objectives, slowly but surely it seems that a lot of player B's have started playing now, there was a guy earlier done nothing but talk in the ops chat, died like 14 times kept throwing themselves at the middle turret like he was AI and at the end when the team lost he says "You all epic fail" like it was someone else's fault, very next battleground the team does well and he thinks its all because of him.

THAT is the problem with pvp, people, plain and simple Short of getting Bioware to go round houses and kill all the people that don't agree with your particular view of things, what exactly do people expect them to do? I for one do not want to play an mmo that as soon as you log in you get an I win button in the mail and a full set of purple items just for talking to the first npc that I've seen.

Personally I've had better battles with poor geared players that are at least trying to play the game on my team than I have had with max level, best gear possible players running around trying to get the highest on the kill count, I've seen low leveled healers win the game for the team by the proper application of what skills they did have rather than whining about what things they don't have.

Guy yesterday gave me a hard time for not passing the ball in huttball even though I was under the effects of crowd control and claimed I was "seeking glory" when I pointed out to them that if they had done something other than stand on the goal line shouting "PASS PASS" in the chat, something like use their sin's crowd control on the people who where running at me as I would have done then I wouldn't have been under the effects of cc and able to pass or score, they said sorry and left the team.

Too many whining people that expect everything to go their own way, too many idiots that think of themselves as invincible and elite until someone comes along and hands their head to them.

Game companies can't do a thing about people who play games, it's an unfortunate thing for those of us who couldn't care what colour your gear was, we just like good playing.