PvP - How it is ...deal with it

STAR WARS: The Old Republic
PvP - How it is ...deal with it

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Roak

01.27.2012 , 11:18 AM \| #51	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by Delavager Again to reiterate to all of you people claiming to do away with Expertise. "You can't remove Expertise because then you'll just get PvE gear. Additionally, if you remove Expertise, the OTHER STATS on the battlemasters gear will still destroy "new level 50s" Anybody suggesting removing Expertise specifically just needs to delete their forum account." You don't get it, because you are new at this and that's fine. As you are new at this and have NO IDEA what you are talking about, nobody at BW is going to take you seriously anyway so not like it matters. Expertise is just a separator for PvP and PvE. It's to make it so the "best gear for PvP" isn't PvE gear, and that PvP players can just PvP. Expertise is just another stat among MANY on Battlesmasters gear that is contributing to your destructing in the Warzone. If you took out Expertise, then the difference in EVERY OTHER STAT would still destroy and the result is the same. Take out Expertise, people go get the best Rakata gear, and STOP YOUR FACE IN PVP, and the same thing happens. It's not the expertise, it's the fact that GEAR exists in PvP. What you want to be saying is "REMOVE GEAR FROM PVP" not "REMOVE EXPERTISE". Everybody stating "REMOVE EXPERTISE" just sounds ridiculous and proves you don't have an understanding of the game and WON'T BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY. Someone doesn't get it, that someone is you. Expertise (or equivalent pvp stat in other games) is only there to make pvp progression into a gear grind, and therefore no extra thought has to be put into a more engaging method of progression. no other reason.
things need to change We have some of the most experienced PvP developers in the world on this team� ~ You have no play time.

Pwny_Express

01.27.2012 , 11:20 AM \| #52	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by Delavager See above response as you are wrong =). No, I'm right, but cool story anyway brah.
"When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk." Better advice was never given.

alanisUDL

01.27.2012 , 11:23 AM \| #53	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by Delavager Take a course is psychology or common sense then come back B.S. in Psychology, Masters in Social Work, Licensed Clinical Social Worker. I've forgotten more about psychology that you probably know. I also cut out the wall of text because it is just too much to respond to but I'll make a few points... -You discuss the purpose is to progress your character, which is true. But character progression doesn't have to be gear based, and certainly doesn't have to be super exceptionally gear based. Go ahead and give the uber-nerd a reason to play 200 hours and have "better" gear-- but you don't have to go and make it game breaking. -You say that "eventually people will get there". This makes a lot of assumptions, and there are lots of people that won't get there. Who? The people that come across a mirror class, play better than them, but get stomped because of gear. If gear progression was less severe, this wouldn't be an issue and that newer toon would have a chance. Right now, they do not. There are a lot of people that will either go back to playing a previous game or move onto a new game because IT IS NOT FUN. As I said previously, you should not have to continue to run up the mountain just to be competitive. -Additionally, I don't think many people would be shocked when the Dev's "move the goalposts" in a few months. New ranks and gear will probably come out. If not, you might then begin to see the "battlemaster vets" start to complain about "nothing new", especially when more people begin to have similar gear and they can't uber-2shot people.
Alanis UDL <The Undead Lords> PvP US East - Belgoth's Beacon

Atamosk

01.27.2012 , 11:27 AM \| #54	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by Fainflinnn See the incentive is the medals. The early game PvP while aquiring gear is a hit and run style play simlar to league of legends. If your warrior melee range type player .....u leap in throw a couple slaps ....to your cc stuff and run the hell away. Your supposed to contribute to your team in a warzone not be the player that is able to kill everyoen toe to toe ......as you aquire more gear your able to sit in the combat for a longer duration and pull off more abilities and get some kills before ya have to pull out of combat. Ranged players are favored here cause they can rack up points and not have to run away as much as melee. Yes your going to get 3 shot from time to time. Eventually your gonna 3 shot ppl form time to time yourself. If all your doing is running in and getting killed over and over and over ......stop running in to much ....its pvp! you have to pick and choose your moments to be combatant. You cant just run in go toe to toe with someone totally geared. The games incentive for early players is to pick your poitns of attack and get the extra medals for valor to gear up faster. I've got a gear sith warrior that had to pick and choose his moments and now that he is geared i can fight toe to toe. I have a total no gear bountyhunter where i'm still playing the hit and run style while i aquire gear. There is definatly some class balancing issues and probably always will be but thats not the topic i started this thread with. Exepertise is the stat rewarded for time put in and allows you to pull away from the hit and run style of play. My fully geared sith warrior loves feeding off you undergeared guys that want to go toe to toe, on the other side I hate them little bastards that pick me off from range or use there CC to slow me down so there team can take me out. guess point of the story is .....if yoru getting 3 shot cause ya keep running in and dying ...learn to play better all the gear in the world isnt gonna help ya get any better just gonna make ya get 6 shot like an idiot in the middle of the ring. totally agree with you about not being a total noob and learning from mistakes. I find that the more mistakes i make the more i learn about classes and their abilities. Like sorcs im a guardian. I make it my job to make their lives a living hell in pvp. sometimes i think they have it so easy with their lighting spams, but instead of complaining about it I just try my hardest to kill them as much as possible its my goal. and it works sometimes. If i can take out of play one sorc who would be molestering my healer then my job is done, screw medals screw all that. on another note. They should just get rid of gear stats in pvp and just balance everyone and make it a vanity thing. When you go into pvp you should revert to some crappy gear and as you lvl up valor it changes your gear to make you look better and better. And doing things like getting points will get you other things that will let you custumize you play style thats the only problem with that method is that you cant really experiment, but at least they could get balance.
running is never a bad thing

Delavager

01.27.2012 , 11:29 AM \| #55	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by Roak Someone doesn't get it, that someone is you. Expertise (or equivalent pvp stat in other games) is only there to make pvp progression into a gear grind, and therefore no extra thought has to be put into a more engaging method of progression. no other reason. Lolololol. You are 100% wrong. Progression in pvp gear grind is by DIFFERENT TIERS of gear, or the existence of gear in general, it has absolutely nothing to do with pvp grind. If you remove expertise, you still have a progression of gear grind. Thus you are 100% wrong. You can tell it's there to separate pvp and pve because it only improves your abilities IN PVP ONLY. Just fail. Go to school.

Atamosk

01.27.2012 , 11:32 AM \| #56	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by Roak Someone doesn't get it, that someone is you. Expertise (or equivalent pvp stat in other games) is only there to make pvp progression into a gear grind, and therefore no extra thought has to be put into a more engaging method of progression. no other reason. in wow actually experties was created to increase fight times in pvp. it increased survivability in a way that would not make the gear viable for pve battles the first pvp gear set in wow was one of the best sets to use in pve setting to make fights longer and ensure that pvp gear would not deminish the greatness of pve raid sets was the reason for experties. gear grinding is a response to the mmo genre in general. I think an intro blue set would be a great idea one that could be gotten from warzon commendations. from what i have read if you just gear up with pve purple mods you can almost negate the benifits of experties gear if not level the playing field a bit. I will be charging in as soon as i hit 50 but i will also be making my gear better so that i dont suck as much. edit i dont know about other systems of pvp and if blizz took this from someone else but this is why they did it not sure about anyone else also in wow its not called experties i forget what its called haha but it is the same stat it is dmg reduction
running is never a bad thing

Jimjim

01.27.2012 , 11:32 AM \| #57	Quote
Yep and this is why PvP is dead in this game. Who wants to get their * kicked in huttball 1000 times to gear up, to kick * in huttball 10000 more times? Lame. Oh and wasn't Bioware all on about not making this game about the gear? Hmm.....
"Who's Jimjim?!" http://greyenclave.com

BentlikeBindo

01.27.2012 , 11:34 AM \| #58	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by Delavager It's true, it is being selfish. The definition of selfish is only looking at something from your own perspective and not considering others. Also there was only one game that came before this and wow that had successful pvp, and that was DAOC. Additionally it doesn't compare because DAOC only had RvR combat. Otherwise there exists no MMORPG prior with successful PvP. Read the forums. People are saying literally that players will leave because they are losing. This thread has many posts stating that. To repeat the title, IT IS WHAT IT IS. Nothing people are suggesting will solve anything, just make it worse. You can't remove PvP gear at the moment because you will just then go get PvE gear. You can't remove Expertise because then you'll just get PvE gear. Additionally, if you remove Expertise, the OTHER STATS on the battlemasters gear will still destroy "new level 50s" Anybody suggesting removing Expertise specifically just needs to delete their forum account. Until the REMOVE GEAR from PvP (different from removing PvP gear) and offer an alternate reward/progression system, there's nothing that can be done to make it better. And to be honest, removing gear doesn't make sense for an RPG because it removes the ability to "define your character" post 50. I like what you have to say, for the most part... I just want to quote you on these because I just read this and have to agree that GW2 is probably more suited for you, and I know for me as well, but I would expect someone that is ideally looking for an equal, skill based playing field to not be so heavily in favor of pampering current kings of the hill. And attacking people like me, who think expertise is a joke and a lame excuse for game design (separation from PvE/PvP gear is necessary though) doesn't show me squat. All I see is negativity, and it's a shame because you probably have some good ideas based on your keen taste in PvP styles. Look , no flamewars wanted, and I agree that the fix is not here on the forums yet but work together to find one ** hence a FORUM! If what you say is true about the stats on battlemaster gear still blowing starter 50 gear out of the water (sans expertise) then that sounds like THE solution to me. Good players are rewarded with better gear, PvEs can compete if they so chose, and beginners have MORE of a level playing field knowing they are working towards (albeit aimlessly) their best gear available.

Atamosk

01.27.2012 , 11:34 AM \| #59	Quote
the only thing i dont understand is why did they ad the 10% to dmg and maybe healing. The dmg reduction plus the great stats is enough to make it more acceptable in the game the dmg negates that and really just adds a bonus that i find counter productive to making pvp more interesting
running is never a bad thing

JingleHell

01.27.2012 , 11:35 AM \| #60	Quote
I'm not Battlemaster. I only have part of a champion set, a couple pieces Columi, and some moddable stuff with high end mods. I regularly kill or hold my own against Battlemasters with way better gear. When I first started PvP, I was in level 50 blue and purple quality gear, against people in full Champion. I won enough to catch up. I did and still do fine. The gear gap is only a huge issue if the gap is from Champion to nonsense gear. Most of the people I've witnessed making those complaints on my server are wearing sub-40 greens, not entry level 50. Every MMO is about return on investment showing in progression. Even in Eve, where you can blow real money to sell Plex on the AH and get a pile of money, after ignoring a character for 2 years while his skills ranked up, there's still an investment. And you'll still do worse than someone who plays more and has more practice controlling their ship. In games like this, where the investment is solely in play time for gear and practice, the time and practice make a bigger gap than in games where cash can make up for some of the time, but the existence of the gap itself is no different. All in all, it boils down to this: a large part of the experience for people in an MMO is some level of competition with the other players, whether it's direct in Warzones, or indirect through progression races. If the game's model involves gear progression, which the majority of people like to some degree or other, then time and gear become two parts of a ratio.
One to embody the power, the other to crave it.

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