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Emperor's Wrath vs. Darth Nox (spoilers)

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Emperor's Wrath vs. Darth Nox (spoilers)

DarkestDaemon's Avatar


DarkestDaemon
01.27.2012 , 06:17 AM | #51
Quote: Originally Posted by drfumblez View Post
Holly? Really? That's pretty weak.
His mother had him blessed as a baby that nothing in the world, except holly, could harm him. Everyone loved him, except Loki, so Loki killed him with the holly.

That's why he was chained up and had the serpent dripping its venom onto his face.
"The Force will set me free!"
Darth Tybek Maar, Wraith of Taris
Wraith (The Story of Tybek) - http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=246582

Killian_Jedi's Avatar


Killian_Jedi
01.27.2012 , 08:44 AM | #52
Quote: Originally Posted by DarkestDaemon View Post
Sadly, there are always different grades of immortality.

For example... I forgot which of the Norse gods it was, but nothing could kill him except holly. And Loki slays him with a sprig of holly.

So you can't just say 'Immortals will die with no head!'

It could be 'Immortals will be inconvenienced with no head!'

Or 'Immortals... we can't even cut off their head.'
Sure there are different grades of immortality, you're right.

The discussion was about Darth Nox and the Emperor's Wrath, not Norse gods? Or did I miss that part of the conversation? I didn't? No I didn't think I did :P

These immortals, in this game, pertaining to this conversation, die if you cut off their head. 100% of the time, everytime.

Now, are we dealing with individuals that can spirit jump and have their essence bound and awoken later by some wild ritual? Sure. But they're dead. Force entities or ghosts essentially.
The suspense is terrible, I hope it'll last.

Darth_Vicente's Avatar


Darth_Vicente
01.27.2012 , 08:50 AM | #53
Quote: Originally Posted by Killian_Jedi View Post
Sure there are different grades of immortality, you're right.

The discussion was about Darth Nox and the Emperor's Wrath, not Norse gods? Or did I miss that part of the conversation? I didn't? No I didn't think I did :P

These immortals, in this game, pertaining to this conversation, die if you cut off their head. 100% of the time, everytime.

Now, are we dealing with individuals that can spirit jump and have their essence bound and awoken later by some wild ritual? Sure. But they're dead. Force entities or ghosts essentially.
When was that established as fact?
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ArdenWolftrayn's Avatar


ArdenWolftrayn
01.27.2012 , 09:16 AM | #54
Quote: Originally Posted by DarkestDaemon View Post
His mother had him blessed as a baby that nothing in the world, except holly, could harm him. Everyone loved him, except Loki, so Loki killed him with the holly.

That's why he was chained up and had the serpent dripping its venom onto his face.


Well, there's some point missing here...

Beldr (that's the God's name) was a blessed child. The day he was born, his mother forced each living thing to swear an oath, in which they promised to never harmed him, and she just forgot Holly (that's how you call it ?). Loki, who was jealous of all the attention given to this new god, made an arrow out of a branch of Holly, and gave it to the brother of Beldr (who was blind, important detail). The brother shot the arrow, guided by Loki, and the arrow killed Beldr.

For punishment, Loki was chained and tortured like said before (venom from a giant snake that burns his forehead, etc. etc.)

Killian_Jedi's Avatar


Killian_Jedi
01.27.2012 , 09:27 AM | #55
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth_Vicente View Post
When was that established as fact?
Well, let's see. There's the whole starting planet of Korriban with all those powerful DEAD sith lord's tombs all over the place? They're all pretty dead man. Immortality in this universe is achieved in one of three ways. One, Vititate's method of consuming entire planets (in the Revan novel it is revealed that the only thing the Emperor truly fears is death, ending his existance after accomplishing so much over a thousand year period), two, Darth Plagueis midichlorian (I shudder to utter that word :P) manipulation and three, Palpatine's method of spirit transfer utilizing clone bodies. With Palpatine's method, (first used by the dark jedi set harth via addendu's holocron...i think it was addendu anyways, been a while since i've read that book) he technically physically dies every time and wills his spirit by means of the Force into a new host body, a blank template.

sooooooo its established all over the place.
The suspense is terrible, I hope it'll last.

Zania's Avatar


Zania
01.27.2012 , 11:14 AM | #56
Ok, about the whole immortality business. It's getting slightly annoying.

New Wrath is NOT immortal. If you've played JK, Scourge actually talks about the immortality ritual. It takes all senses of a normal being away from the target. He can no longer smell/taste/feel(sense wise). He is no longer mortal and possesses no senses that are present in mortals. it's one of the reasons why he is mad at Emperor (other than him wanting to destroy all life). I am sure our character would have remarked on such a loss after getting out of the mine.

Nox is not immortal either. He was held back from brink of death by being tied to the ghosts, yes. But with body destroyed, he will either die, or become a ghost himself. During second confrontation, Thanaton explicitly says something of the sort "oh, I see what you did there, I'll make sure to dispose of your body properly this time!" just before he realizes you actually have more than one ghost tied to you and you zap him.

Either way, immortal characters would be a bit boring, don't you think?

Rhyltran's Avatar


Rhyltran
01.27.2012 , 11:37 AM | #57
Quote: Originally Posted by Ardim View Post
I'd really like to see someone survive getting their head lopped off, have the body sliced and diced into pieces, then have all those pieces and head dumped into molten lava.
Sidious could.

DarkestDaemon's Avatar


DarkestDaemon
01.27.2012 , 11:55 AM | #58
Quote: Originally Posted by ArdenWolftrayn View Post
Well, there's some point missing here...

Beldr (that's the God's name) was a blessed child. The day he was born, his mother forced each living thing to swear an oath, in which they promised to never harmed him, and she just forgot Holly (that's how you call it ?). Loki, who was jealous of all the attention given to this new god, made an arrow out of a branch of Holly, and gave it to the brother of Beldr (who was blind, important detail). The brother shot the arrow, guided by Loki, and the arrow killed Beldr.

For punishment, Loki was chained and tortured like said before (venom from a giant snake that burns his forehead, etc. etc.)
Close enough for my description

Quote: Originally Posted by Killian_Jedi View Post
Well, let's see. There's the whole starting planet of Korriban with all those powerful DEAD sith lord's tombs all over the place? They're all pretty dead man. Immortality in this universe is achieved in one of three ways. One, Vititate's method of consuming entire planets (in the Revan novel it is revealed that the only thing the Emperor truly fears is death, ending his existance after accomplishing so much over a thousand year period), two, Darth Plagueis midichlorian (I shudder to utter that word :P) manipulation and three, Palpatine's method of spirit transfer utilizing clone bodies. With Palpatine's method, (first used by the dark jedi set harth via addendu's holocron...i think it was addendu anyways, been a while since i've read that book) he technically physically dies every time and wills his spirit by means of the Force into a new host body, a blank template.

sooooooo its established all over the place.
It isn't established that the method used by the Emperor to grant his servant immortality will allow them to die with the removal of their head. Nor is it established that the spirits which fill Nox grant a similar limited immortality.

For all we know, neither of them can be killed without a ritual that subverts the immortality granted to them. Which means a lightsaber blade connects with their neck... and then does nothing.

So until the limitations of the immortality is established, it would make a bit more sense to go with the idea of them being completely immortal. No way of dying.

Quote: Originally Posted by Zania View Post

Either way, immortal characters would be a bit boring, don't you think?
Nope.

It would just mesh in with game mechanics extremely well.
"The Force will set me free!"
Darth Tybek Maar, Wraith of Taris
Wraith (The Story of Tybek) - http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=246582

Rhyltran's Avatar


Rhyltran
01.27.2012 , 12:01 PM | #59
Quote: Originally Posted by DarkestDaemon View Post
Close enough for my description



It isn't established that the method used by the Emperor to grant his servant immortality will allow them to die with the removal of their head. Nor is it established that the spirits which fill Nox grant a similar limited immortality.

For all we know, neither of them can be killed without a ritual that subverts the immortality granted to them. Which means a lightsaber blade connects with their neck... and then does nothing.

So until the limitations of the immortality is established, it would make a bit more sense to go with the idea of them being completely immortal. No way of dying.



Nope.

It would just mesh in with game mechanics extremely well.
To be fair it's the other way around. If nothing has been said about their immortality in how "immortal" they are. We must assume that immortality means it's basic definition. The ability to live forever. I.E. Ageless. You can't assume the characters are invincible just because they're immortal. There's also a good chance that neither the wrath nor Nox have achieved immortality.

Immortal isn't invincible.

DarkestDaemon's Avatar


DarkestDaemon
01.27.2012 , 12:05 PM | #60
Quote: Originally Posted by Rhyltran View Post
To be fair it's the other way around. If nothing has been said about their immortality in how "immortal" they are. We must assume that immortality means it's basic definition. The ability to live forever. I.E. Ageless. You can't assume the characters are invincible just because they're immortal. There's also a good chance that neither the wrath nor Nox have achieved immortality.

Immortal isn't invincible.
The reason I say it's best to assume the greatest level of immortality is, to put it quite simply, why would the Emperor need a Wrath who can die by any hand other than his own?
"The Force will set me free!"
Darth Tybek Maar, Wraith of Taris
Wraith (The Story of Tybek) - http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=246582