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Darth Vadar.. really bad??


Prenecae's Avatar


Prenecae
01.26.2012 , 04:50 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Crompton View Post
I see what your saying but to me i think anyone would do that for the ones they love, to me Yoda has no heart. He always seems cold and just thinks everybodys bad cause he has no life.
Becoming a Jedi requires sacrifice and when those sacrifices are not made, well look at what happend to Anakin. I dont think Yoda is being heartless, I think he was being realistic in that being in love and having that sort of connection can make it difficult to resist the dark side. Especially if you are being manipulated a.k.a Darth Sidious.

Hellbring's Avatar


Hellbring
01.26.2012 , 05:46 PM | #22
Anakin did make the sacrifices the problem was I think he made them for the wrong reason as his whole reason for being there was the Qui'Gon manipulated the results of a dice toss to ensure that he got Anakin and essentially forced the Jedi Counsel to train a child that the they felt was unsuited and dangerous to train. Anakin did give up everything he knew and cared for and that loss already put him on the path to darkness.
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet the Force.

KryloKillian's Avatar


KryloKillian
01.26.2012 , 05:56 PM | #23
It was really the Council's fault. Anakin was mentally unbalanced, had a ****ed up life, and was in love. Those were all recipes for disaster, however, the one real factor that led him to the dark side?

He couldn't talk about it to any of the jedi, which left whim with only Palpatine's voice in his ear. If the jedi weren't so hard against love/marriage/whatever else at this time period, Anakin almost certainly would have gone to Obi Wan and Yoda with his concerns and visions, and would have been helped and led away from things like Sith Sorcery. Without that guidance it was easy for Palpatine to manipulate him.
Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good kick to the balls, kid.

Hellbring's Avatar


Hellbring
01.26.2012 , 06:06 PM | #24
He did go to Yoda with the concerns of his visions and Yoda told him death is not the end and should rejoice in someone going back to the force (paraphrase) the problem was that because of the council being against love and marriage during this time Anakin couldn't disclose the whole problem and get a better understanding of this. Yes it led to Anakin turning to the worst possible person ever to talk to about his problem, even Obi Wan would have been better because he had a lot of his Master in him, and compound that on a life that with the early childhood of being a slave boy and then losing his mother, twice, it really wasn't his fault, not his best choice, but still kinda his not his fault.
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet the Force.

shadowrouge's Avatar


shadowrouge
01.26.2012 , 06:09 PM | #25
The Jedi did try and help Anakin. Yoda told him give up your attachments. Your all forgetting that Palps was a HUGE influence in his life as he grew up in and around the senate after being take as Obi-Wans padawan.

In A New Hope Obi-Wan admits that he failed in his teaching of Anakin. He tells Luke that his Student Darth Vader killed Lukes father. Because he (Obi-Wan) thought he could instruct him as well as Yoda.

So if you look at the whole picture. The Jedi tried but could not teach Anakin how to lose his attachments to others. And Palps secretly nourished and feed those feelings to him. In all it was his own inability to let go of his feelins. As Obi-Wan instructed Luke several times in A New Hope. That cause him to become the force of evil he turned into.

Now as far as redemption. No saving Luke was not a cleansing as it would show in the films. But a step to the path of redemption.
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KryloKillian's Avatar


KryloKillian
01.26.2012 , 07:19 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by shadowrouge View Post
The Jedi did try and help Anakin. Yoda told him give up your attachments. Your all forgetting that Palps was a HUGE influence in his life as he grew up in and around the senate after being take as Obi-Wans padawan.

In A New Hope Obi-Wan admits that he failed in his teaching of Anakin. He tells Luke that his Student Darth Vader killed Lukes father. Because he (Obi-Wan) thought he could instruct him as well as Yoda.

So if you look at the whole picture. The Jedi tried but could not teach Anakin how to lose his attachments to others. And Palps secretly nourished and feed those feelings to him. In all it was his own inability to let go of his feelins. As Obi-Wan instructed Luke several times in A New Hope. That cause him to become the force of evil he turned into.

Now as far as redemption. No saving Luke was not a cleansing as it would show in the films. But a step to the path of redemption.
The problem is that jedi are humans (well, for a given definition of human in most cases), which is to say they aren't robots. They are people with emotions. Even Obi-Wan has had close connections to people, Anakin amongst them. Telling someone to just lose all their attachments isn't 'help'. It's pushing them away.

They helped about as much as an overprotective father telling his daughter that she can't date as long as she lives under his roof. She's going to date anyway, and Anakin is going to form attachments anyway. What would be helpful is teaching Anakin how to deal with those attachments, and not force him to live in secret with them, which, itself with the stress involved, pushed him toward the dark side without Palpatine even getting involved.

Basically what happened was Anakin went to his father figure and said, "The woman I love is dying," and his father figure said, "Well good! She'll go to heaven!"

That's... that's not how people work. All that could have possibly done was cement in Anakin's mind how ****ed up the order was. Because it was.
Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good kick to the balls, kid.