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New Clone wars vs old Clone Wars

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
New Clone wars vs old Clone Wars

Theos_Braddock's Avatar


Theos_Braddock
01.26.2012 , 12:51 AM | #21
Granted Mace did not die to Order 66 but I was refering to the op-ness of the Jedi in general rather then one particular character.

I know this is a kids show but still, making the Jedi out to be unequivable bada**es in the Clone Wars series stands in stark contrast to how quickly the jedi fell in episode 3.

Personally I prefer the force users to be a little more "down to earth" in terms of power, being slightly above the rest of the creatures in the galaxy rather then:

"Well I have the force and I automatically win at everything"

perspective that we have seen in the past (Animated Clone Wars).

KryloKillian's Avatar


KryloKillian
01.26.2012 , 01:27 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Theos_Braddock View Post
Granted Mace did not die to Order 66 but I was refering to the op-ness of the Jedi in general rather then one particular character.

I know this is a kids show but still, making the Jedi out to be unequivable bada**es in the Clone Wars series stands in stark contrast to how quickly the jedi fell in episode 3.

Personally I prefer the force users to be a little more "down to earth" in terms of power, being slightly above the rest of the creatures in the galaxy rather then:

"Well I have the force and I automatically win at everything"

perspective that we have seen in the past (Animated Clone Wars).
They died to battle droids and normal soldiers as well during the cartoon. . .? Like, that's a thing that happened. The only ones who did anything as over the top as Windu were, well, Windu and, arguably, Anakin.

Not all jedi are equally skilled nor gifted in either combat or the force.

Edit: And Yoda was turned on during Order 66 as well and was able to escape. There were a few others that are mentioned in other sources of varying levels of canon, and either way the Empire performed more jedi hunts and purges after Order 66. That just killed all but the best, and destroyed any chance the jedi might have of forming a unified front against Palpatine/Sidious.
Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good kick to the balls, kid.

CaesarReborn's Avatar


CaesarReborn
01.26.2012 , 08:16 AM | #23
I will admit, after just recently looking back at Tartakovsky's animation, that yes the story wasn't its main selling point. In all honesty however, it still had a better story than those in the CGI version. I think everyone is misunderstanding good story telling with Lucas ability to represent realism and depth in the Clone Wars.

If you don't want to read the whole thing here is my feeling as a whole with a parts unexplained that I will get to later.

Strengths of CGI version: Realism, morals, and nice look at third party perspectives. Troopers personality (thank goodness not like the droids).
Weaknesses: is there character development? Scattered story with poorly depicted relationship between the third parties conflicts and the clone war itself. Useless dialogue at times.

Strength of 2D version: Simple easy to follow story, easily identifiable and important moments of character regression or development. Evolution of the war (the technology and the factions involved specifically). EPIC fights and duels.
Weaknesses: Too many or too long of a fight at times, questionable event Qui-gon. A little too ridiculous at times with lights sabers, the force and space fights that lead us to a fall with episode III, a big one with Grievous fans!!

When watching The Clone Wars (clarifying as CGI) episodes I do feel that each iteration has a strong story. The whole story of The Clone Wars (CGI) is scattered, stagnant and devalued by unnecessary episodes. I base my view off the rare signs of character (or group*) evolution and development within the series. In my mind only 20 percent of the episodes show having links to a previous episode and have impacted a character's or faction's (such as the Jedi or Sith) development as the war continues. The rest of the episodes are trying to cram in too many perspectives without really giving them the respect they deserve, especially the Sith or Seperatists!!!

Clone Wars (Tartakovsky's animation) was a simple and fluid story with two interests at heart.

Primary focus: How does the war affect Anakin Skywalker's character. Simple! Tartakovsky wasn't aiming for anything huge he wanted to depict how Anakin develops into Darth Vader (remember this was before Episode III and I did fell that all that development was wasted). In the CGI it tries to answer the same question but too much time is spent on Obi-wan, Ashoka or others who serve as constant annoyances instead of influential characters with stories that are not fully fleshed out.

I know I am going to hear this sooner or later so let me get the episodes in the 2D animation that strayed from the story; specifically the battles for Mon Calamari, Dantooine and Illum. On Dantoonie and Illum there is no story outside of the conflict itself, and really that is fine because the difference between these battles and those in the 3D (such as a rogue planet-state expanding their interstellar power or the betrayal by a select number of clones to the separatists) is that imagination is allowed to fill in the holes. The 3D episodes are filled too the brim with dialogue by independent characters trying to explain every moral choice they make. In the end the characters feel like programmed machines not capable of being influenced by those around them or later on a story set in stone that was nothing more than a minor road bump and nothing else. Fisto is on Mon Calamari to assist the Calamari, done. Using Mon Calamari you could envision battles happening on other planets with different reasons; IT WASN'T FORCEFULLY FEED TO YOU. On Dantooine, when seeing farms and fields, I believed that the Separatists were playing dirty and striking at the one weakness clones don't share with droids, food supply.

Before continuing, I must demonize those who believe that The Clone Wars is better because there is fewer points of interactions and drama between Padme and Anakin. Hate to say this, but exploitable love shared between Padme and Anakin is what turns him into Vader, so avoiding it damages the story. At least the 2D animation used a cave painting to describe how Anakin's fear and drive would consume everything he held dear.

In terms of character development it was readily identifiable in Anakin when he was being drawn closer to the dark side, but outside of Anakin the Jedi order was changing too. We see how Anakin becomes a knight in an unorthodox manner, and (when members of the council were actually talking, yes I nerded out there because they were no longer place holders OMG they talked to one another) how the trials were being forgone in the case of Anakin and possibly others in favor of experience in the war.

Again like I stated above, Padme and Obi-wan (or really the lack of at key times) have influenced Anakin greatly.

I feel that The Clone Wars was trying to cover too many themes, perspectives and interesting side stories without becoming a mess.

Clone Wars was simple and stuck too its simple story with only a few overly hyping fan service battles.

BrandonSM's Avatar


BrandonSM
01.26.2012 , 10:43 AM | #24
The Old One, like I said before, had no story and was a massive brawl.


The new one, goes into more detail on other characters besides Obi and Anakin. Shows their skills and weaknesses, you realize the relationship Obi had with Anakin and why it was such a big thing for their showdown. It makes the Prequels allot better.
Hapan: "This creature has information that could lead us to a woman who has been kidnapped. We will get that information."
Luke: "This woman is a citizen of the New Republic, and if you do not take your hands off her, I will take your hands off you."

Intarabus's Avatar


Intarabus
01.26.2012 , 05:48 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by CaesarReborn View Post
I will admit, after just recently looking back at Tartakovsky's animation, that yes the story wasn't its main selling point. ...

Clone Wars was simple and stuck too its simple story with only a few overly hyping fan service battles.
To summarize it: it was made better in general. For example, I found, in the new series, the Ventress/Savage Opress storyline was not a bad idea. And it started off well, with even using some EU-Canon stuff for Ventress in a good way, and explaining how Opress became Dookus new henchmen. But then they totally lost the grip. In just some 20 minutes or that, Oppress has Sith training, becomes super ******, has random assasination scenes, gets detected by Jedi, holds his ground, suddenly turns against Dooku, fights off his master and Ventress. As if that was enough, when is a clearly doomed somehow, he escapes and is written off for a looong time.
And to me, it was way better done in comparison when they showed how Ventress became Dookus assasin in the old series.

Also, I think, they somehow do not get the main storyline really together in Clone wars. Every season has a main plot, thats cool. But then... In season 2, they made hommages of famous movies, notably of Godzilla and Seven Samurai/Magnificent seven. All of a sudden, and even that were somehow not-bad episodes, it surely could add nothing to the main plot. Then, in season 3, they came up with the ideas of prequels/sequels of former episodes, like anyone did care and really thought: O cool, thats what happened before the random Ryloth battle. What were they thinking, that this would make it as deep as "Lost" or something like that? Then they have those episodes with OT-Cameos. "Hey, how it is, if we just bring in Greedo for 10 seconds?" "Awesome...."
Last blitz idea: "What do we do now?" "Don't know... wait, don't we have also that clone wars comic line? Lets take one of those and make it CGI!" The TV episodes were even better than the crappy drawn original, but, come on, these comics were planned as add-ons, and do they really have to show a story whose outcome you can know since about 2 years or so?
Sometimes, the team to me seems to be much too fanboyish with a tendency just to make whole episodes if something comes in mind that they dig at the moment.
The really interesting stuff, which they put in special arcs or the season finales, then is too rushed and too much story is packed in 2 episodes.
With this long running time already, I doubt that they will never be able to bring all the hastily started off sidestories together. Remember, for example, that two main separatists, Wat Tambor and Poggle the Lesser are still in republic jail? I doubt, that they will ever bring this subjects up ever again.
But enough ranting, I still watch it and season 4 had a better start than the former ones, but I really don't expect it to become a good series anymore.