This is what I posted on my Guild's forums...(PvP rant)

I spent a grand total of 6 months not PVP'ing, and I started playing EVE in 2004. I think 95% of my time over the past 7 years I was PVP'ing, and only a tiny minority was "money making grind".

EVE is by FAR the best PVP MMO out there. Compared to EVE, games like WoW (and SWTOR) are like toddlers fighting Kitschko

Not saying SWTOR isn't fun, because I'm having a ton of fun...but I've yet to come across an MMO that rivals its PVP. One guy on here suggested a pirates game (forgot the name), might check that out.

Enlighten us, what game offers better PVP in your opinion? If you say WoW, RIFT, or Gild Wars I'm gonna fall over laughing

You're obviously mad. Everyone knows how bias Eve PvP is. Please just give up. You have no argument. True essence of PvP is games like Counter Strike. When you understand what I said then talk. Dont give me your "I KNOW WHAT REAL PVP IS" when you're obviously clueless.

I obviously understand that you can't have people lose gear that they spent weeks grinding for. I get that. The mechanics are different. But you can implement things that are worth fighting for and offer rewards/costs money to maintain(cities). That kind of risk/reward pvp can be implemented without a huge over haul to the overall mechanics of the game.

EvE is real PVP. I have never been in a game where the players were as organized and skilled. A different kind of skilled than in Themeparks. People had to fit their ships right or they would simply be left behind. People fly in formation, have discipline, if one person doesn't do their job the whole fleet can be lost. People pay attention to the fleet commander and fire only at targets he calls.

There's nothing more nerve racking than trying to take down a POS and having a covert ops ship come out of cloak and pop a cyno and have 50 capital ships dumped on your head as you try to put up a counter cyno and have your caps jump theirs while you keep them bubbled. God I miss that game.

Using an Aim bot and being able to center your mouse on something and hit a button is not the holy grail of PVP there are lots of kinds.

You're looking for Ultima Online or Lineage 2. There will never be a game like this again in Western markets. It upsets too many paying customers to play a game, that is supposed to be fun, and end up losing everything they achieved over months , or even years, in a matter of seconds. Especially if they are not interested in PVP in the first place.

WoW proved that focusing on casual gamers is more profitable than catering to hardcore gamers (there are more of them). SWTOR has followed suit for the most part, and this game is more focused on the story and questing than endgame of either type, PVE or PVP.

Hate to break it to you, but hardcore ruleset open world MMOs are not sustainable or profitable in this day and age. Their fanbase is too small a niche compared to the average casual MMO player of today. The game you want will never be developed again. Sorry.

Here's a good video with some solo-PVP in EVE: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVo0BvYqMAs

And here's a fleet fight: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXLsqUjxQLM

Notice how the commands are almost military style. You have to be VERY organized to stand a chance. And I don't mean just looking at cooldowns

The only issue with that game is the learning curve, it's VERY steep. In SWTOR or WoW you can find good PVP'ers that have only played for 6 months. A 6 month old character in EVE will still be useful and win fights, but if he runs into a 1yr old player or god forbid a 7 year old player, he's toast. The variety of setups is pretty mind blowing too, so even if you recognize the ship, you can't always be sure how he's set up. Requires a ton more tactics than button smashing in WoW-like games.

If I'd start playing EVE today, I'd create a starter toon and learn the mechanics of the game for a few weeks...and then spend some RL$ to buy a character (yes, that's possible). It's not even that expensive, and you'd enjoy the game a lot more than spending 2yrs grinding before being "good". The skills train while you're offline too, and you can't make it any faster by grinding. Takes a lot of pressure away because you don't have to grind to become good.

Anyway...getting carried away

I'm actually enjoying SWTOR PVP, but it's a "light" version of PVP. You don't really risk losing anything, which makes it kinda pointless long term. Nice for a few matches once you grinded up your character, but I doubt I'll spend many nights PVP'ing while missing sleep.

PVP is a large term it does not even imply combat ... chess is pvp... some have very different takes on pvp so lets just take his view on pvp and be constructive. I never PVPed on EVE but i can see how this could be fun. I have PVPed in WOW, Rift, Warhammer, DAOC, and all in all there is global, persistant aspect that is missing. DAOC was the closest to that i have played, but still the PVP game could be ignored altogether. The idea i think i get from the OP is that he want a game where even if you are not into the brawl you could actually be PVPing... we could have space combat PVP, we could have PVE race to a boss, we could have intergalactic trading route where PVEers would be protected by PVPers, ...

BW boast of story making. They beat others MMO for PVE on that aspect in my eyes... The PVP could use some story... Include PVP into the greater scheme of things.

To be blunt, after 8 years of any game you can't help but look at it with the rose colored lenses. Hopefully you find some game that lives up to your EVE expectations, the issue is in part that if the game was modeled after what you (or I) like in PvP it might have been totally inaccessible for others.

Most people do not want:

• Significant penalty (ie loot dropping or an XP hit) on death
• Fights over static territories with guild ownership of areas and the ability to murdalize anyone who poaches.
• A heavy focus on player crafted gear and player fueled economy rather than a need to raid grind.
• Umm... not 2 sided RvR PvP

If you expected any of this, you came to the wrong game, sorry friendo, better luck elsewhere. Note however, that your wanting these things doesn't make you better than anyone else, I've played PvP games I consider way more serious than EVE (Shadowbane?) and I am loving SWTOR for what its worth. There are PvP games like Darkfall out there, they might be worth checking out if thats your scene... or hey, EVE is still around.


Very well said, essentially this market isn't for you anymore OP, sorry man but those are the breaks. There are still side-market games out there for the PvPer in all of us, but those games will never be popular with the mainstream, and if you expected SWTOR to be anything but mainstream you seriously fooled yourself.

The only people who seem to think I don't know what I'm talking about were the people who did not fully experience Eve. It seems like former Eve-Online players agree with my views for the most part according to the responses here.