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Huge bug with Ataru Form

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Tumri's Avatar


Tumri
01.25.2012 , 07:40 PM | #81
Quote: Originally Posted by NikonNikkor View Post
The Math for diminishing returns for critical strike:

For ease of use, all other things are equal.

For each 1% chance to critically strike an enemy, it provides a static increase to the statistical dps a character will do. It's important to note the word "static" in this formula. This is to say 1% increase in crit will provide a character that does 1000 dps an extra 10 dps. Now the character is doing 1010 dps (I'm using easy math for this, nothing too complicated). Now 10 dps over 1000 is a 1% increase.

Now the player chooses to increase crit another 1%. Now the character is doing 1020 dps. But the increase of 10 dps from 1010 dps to 1020 dps is NOT a 1% increase, it is slightly less than 1%. Over time and along the curve, if you do you f(x) limit as crit approaches 100% (or 1 in the math terms), you'll see the curve show diminishing returns over time and how valuable crit is at certain points along the curve.

Power as a stat suffers from the same diminishing returns, but not subject to the RNG detractor that crit is.

So what you have to do is go along the curve to find the value per point of increase of each stat: surge, power, and crit. And balance them accordingly to pick the best gear that has the largest increase of value per point provided along each curve.

I would be willing to do the actual analysis as I have crystal ball on my computer if it is of serious interest to the player base.
I wasn't referring to the math behind DR. I was asking for whatever "math" he used to determine that 25% crit total was the end of crit's usefulness at which point you stack power to the sky. Obviously he didn't actually have any mathematical evidence to support this so he just kept babbling on and I left out of frustration.
Wrath
Pre-Launch Hardcore Guild that has moved on to better games.
www.wrathnation.com

LagunaD's Avatar


LagunaD
01.26.2012 , 02:49 AM | #82
Re: the original topic

Has anyone tested whether this hit-box bug is unique to Ataru form? There are number of other similar effects in the game (e.g. Shadow/Assassin stance procs).

Re: theory-crafting

I made some spreadsheets of my own for Carnage at Level 50 during the last beta build, and they are still accurate as far as the ability damage goes. These calculated the derivative of each ability's expected damage with respect all stats (the derivative is calculated analytically, talent effects and group buffs were included, and the combat table - crits, misses, avoidance, mitigation, etc - was included).

Knowing how much 1 point of each stat will increase every ability, I could make a weighted sum over all abilities, based on how often each ability is used in combat, to estimate how much one point of each stat increased my overall DPS.

Power came out well ahead of everything else up to the gear level I reached (which admittedly wasn't raid level, but I was fully geared out with whatever mods you can get with dailies, and had about 850 points of secondary stats). Crit, Surge and Accuracy were nowhere near as effective, even with very high Power.

My stats, and the value (normalized to +1 Strength) of an additional point:

Strength: 1150 (+1)
Power: 337 (+0.98)
Accuracy Rating: 97 (+0.57)
Critical Rating: 142 (+0.64)
Surge Rating: 273 (+0.61)


The averaging over abilities and some assumed target defensive characteristics is not perfect, but the difference between Power and everything else is enormous. The point is that I can't imagine that a Carnage build with only 50 Power is going to be optimal for the spec.

Re: Diminishing Returns

There is a handy rule for understanding the DR on ratings.

The bonus from an additional point of rating is proportional to the fraction of the cap remaining above your current bonus.

Example: the cap on the bonus from Critical Rating is 30%. If you already have a +10% bonus from Critical Rating, the next point will add only 2/3's the bonus of your first point, because you are 20% under the 30% cap for this bonus, and 20%/30% = 2/3's.

If you had a +20% bonus from Critical Rating, the next point would only add 1/3 as much as the first point.

And so on.
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Vixxa/Marauder - Niobe/Sorceror
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Kibaken's Avatar


Kibaken
01.26.2012 , 03:25 AM | #83
Quote: Originally Posted by LagunaD View Post
Re: the original topic

Has anyone tested whether this hit-box bug is unique to Ataru form? There are number of other similar effects in the game (e.g. Shadow/Assassin stance procs).

Messed around on both Garhj and Karagga and I can confirm it's a distance-from-target issue with large hitbox enemies.

Also, there's talk in sw.com boss defense chance may be 8% instead of 10%, meaning we only need 108% Accuracy.

http://sithwarrior.com/forums/Thread...endium?page=18

No confirming information but it may be something to look into.
The Aurion Legacy

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LagunaD's Avatar


LagunaD
01.26.2012 , 06:56 AM | #84
Quote: Originally Posted by Kibaken View Post
Also, there's talk in sw.com boss defense chance may be 8% instead of 10%, meaning we only need 108% Accuracy.
If the data (which was collected by watching video-captures of boss fights for deflects/evades) is right, 10% is pretty much ruled out.

But this sort of visual testing (admittedly, all you can do without a log) seems really error prone to me.

Given that they haven't given us the tools for a reliable in-game determination, it would be really nice if Georg Z or somebody else could just tell us what the melee/ranged avoidance for bosses is.
Dagoreth/Shadow - Martina/Sentinel - Sandrine/Commando - Silmara/Scoundrel
Belechannas/Sage - Knox/Vanguard

Vixxa/Marauder - Niobe/Sorceror
The Harbinger

pangwl's Avatar


pangwl
01.26.2012 , 10:16 AM | #85
Have a question.

My accuracy is at 100% (10% after bonus is included)
My special accuracy is at 110%

I'm still seeing some 'miss' hit.... is that from offhand? I notice when I strike, a pair of dmg comes up, and one of them is a miss.

Is there anyway at all to improve offhand accuracy?
Arradan | Jedi Sentinel | Republic Centurion

NikonNikkor's Avatar


NikonNikkor
01.26.2012 , 10:55 AM | #86
Your primary weapon begins with 90% accuracy, your offhand weapon begins with 50% accuracy, hence why you're seeing misses.


Quote: Originally Posted by pangwl View Post
Have a question.

My accuracy is at 100% (10% after bonus is included)
My special accuracy is at 110%

I'm still seeing some 'miss' hit.... is that from offhand? I notice when I strike, a pair of dmg comes up, and one of them is a miss.

Is there anyway at all to improve offhand accuracy?

CameronWinston's Avatar


CameronWinston
01.26.2012 , 01:45 PM | #87 This is the last staff post in this thread.  
Hello everyone -

Thanks to you, we have identified the issue causing this problem and are currently working on a fix. We'll roll out the fix in a future content patch - watch the Public Test Server for an update.

Thanks for your feedback!

- Cameron

Tumri's Avatar


Tumri
01.26.2012 , 03:23 PM | #88
Quote: Originally Posted by LagunaD View Post
If the data (which was collected by watching video-captures of boss fights for deflects/evades) is right, 10% is pretty much ruled out.

But this sort of visual testing (admittedly, all you can do without a log) seems really error prone to me.

Given that they haven't given us the tools for a reliable in-game determination, it would be really nice if Georg Z or somebody else could just tell us what the melee/ranged avoidance for bosses is.
This^

Accuracy rating causes me to rage when I'm trying to min/max because It's an internal struggle debating what to do with the stat. On one hand I might be losing out on a ton of DPS by keeping accuracy when it's useless. On the other hand I might be losing out on a ton of DPS by not being accuracy capped. Bioware needs to take 10 seconds to post "Yes the accuracy cap is 110% specials" or "No accuracy doesn't really have an effect on your hits".
Wrath
Pre-Launch Hardcore Guild that has moved on to better games.
www.wrathnation.com

thanealpha's Avatar


thanealpha
01.26.2012 , 04:46 PM | #89
Quote: Originally Posted by CameronWinston View Post
Hello everyone -

Thanks to you, we have identified the issue causing this problem and are currently working on a fix. We'll roll out the fix in a future content patch - watch the Public Test Server for an update.

Thanks for your feedback!

- Cameron
These types of bugs would be FAR easier to root out, document, and report if we had a combat log....

Just saying.

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thanealpha's Avatar


thanealpha
01.26.2012 , 04:47 PM | #90
Quote: Originally Posted by NikonNikkor View Post
Your primary weapon begins with 90% accuracy, your offhand weapon begins with 50% accuracy, hence why you're seeing misses.
Can you point to where this is documented? I keep seeing quotes like this across many issues but I'm unable to find any documentation.