Gunslinger is to weak compared to other classes

Wrakk, first off. I think I have the same right to post in this topic as you do.

Having said that: Of course I play a Sniper, would not be any reason to hang out in this thread if i didnt

And I know my game mechanics.

I know Marksman Snipers suffer more from SWTOR mitigation than any other ranged class or spec in the game (and that Concealment Operatives ignore most of SWTOR mitigation than any other spec in the game - or at least as much as the not-so-popular-elemental-spec that Bounty Hunters have access to). The SWTOR mitigation mechanics make Sorcerers, Operatives, Snipers, DPS Assassins and Marauders prime targets for a Marksman Sniper while Powertech with shield generator and using Ion Gas Cylinder, Juggernaut with shield generator and in Soresu form and Assassins with shield generator and Dark Charge are the worst possible targets for a Marksman Sniper.

I do end up as top 3 damage dealers in the <50 bracket with subpar equipment and no biochem while still pealing for the ball carrier and even run with the ball because everyone else is too busy doing 1v1. The class have issues, yes. But I seen a lot of clueless snipers/gunslingers in PvP since release. Clueless might work for Mercs doing 1 button spam. To a degree (gotta love mercs that just stand still doing nothing for 4 seconds if you interrupt tracer missile). Being clueless doesn't really work for Snipers/Gunslingers (who here have not seen Snipers set up camp 5m away from objective in plain sight without a pocket healer keeping them alive?)

I also know that abilities with animations (such as sniping or going into cover) might get interrupted when you are attacked (probably because of animation priority, BW is aware of this issue). In PvE mostly only tanks notice this (they are the only guys being hit, and it get a progressivly bigger issue the more defense and shield they stack. This is in fact the biggest issue tanks have right now); in PvP everyone being under attack might suffer from this.

I also ran into lots of "creative" places in wz where I simply was not allowed to set up cover... but that is mostly a learn where cover is usable and not issue i think.


A big reason why Marksman Snipers is the least played class (actually I think engineer Snipers are played less than Marksman but whatever) include, but is not limited to:
1) Agents are not force users. People play Star Wars to wield a laser sword and use the force. The most played class on the imperial side is, by far, inquisitor.
3) They have a rather boring play-style, at least at lower levels (a bounty hunter can run 'n gun on their way to objectives - killing strongs on the way. a warrior can leap into combat and is very much up in the face with flashy sword moves. a really good sorc can dance around 3-4 bad targets solo killing them all etc)
4) Take Cover is the default ability, not Crouch. Because of this a lot of people use Take Cover instead of Crouch. Take Cover use a very awkward game mechanic and a lot of the complains from the first 30 pages in this topic would not be an issue if people used Crouch instead.
5) Cover system is strange and hard for some people to understand. There are a lot of people at low levels that don't understand that you can run and instant go into crouch to instant start fire a 1.5 sec snipe shot and then continue to run - just as you could run with a merc and then stand still to instant start fire a 1.5 sec tracer missile and then continue to run.
6) There are no imperial agents in the movies that you can relate to. I would not be surprised if the % of Smugglers compared to the republic population is bigger than the % of agents compared to the imperial population...

Alright, Level 50 Gunslinger/Sharpshooter writing here, done about enough Warzones to sort of know what I'm talking about, or at least I think so. This might be a long read, but if you are a Gunslinger, try and give it a read...

If you are not... read anyways, and you know why to try and strike the one with the guns first.


Right, first of all... I came to the conclusion that GS are actually NOT the DPS machines they are marketed at. Maybe they were designed for this at some point, but with the wide array of skills we have I find that not only hard to believe, but actually trying to just do DPS will leave you with your face flat on the ground in most WZs.

So... what is a Gunslinger then, if not DPS? They have three trees only for DPS, no?

Well, no. The fact that we do not have a Tank or Heal Spec does not make us automatically DPS only. Keep that in mind, while continuing to read, if you are still with me at this point.

I think what the GS really is at this point, is a Mezzer. Yes, you read that right. I'll explain by telling how I act on the Warzones usually. Forgive me for the names, but I didn't bother to learn the Warzone names at this point.

The Star Destroyer
You get to defend your doors, and then do the assault the next round. In case of defending, first thing I do is pick a door to defend. Usually I have about 3-4 other guys with me there, depending on team size.
Now, you usually see the Sith coming right at you literally at that point already, with your people close to you. Cover, use my Hunker down, then activate my shield, giving me and everyone around me 20% additional damage reduction.
Next, I throw my flashbang, to make the imps have a lot of misses and my guys a lot of dodges.
At this point some of the Imps will try to knock me from my shield, which is why I use my dodge right now, to still have them all miss me. This is in preparation for what's coming now... the XS Freighter Flyby. This not only deals good damage but also secures the door from getting messed with for a good amount of time.
After making all those Imps regret having entered MY zone, it's time for payback. Dish out some of that damage everyone says I can do, usually all the Imps are at least at half their Health by now, if my team buddies were smart enough to take advantage of all the things I did. Usually I first pick off one of he healers in the distance, just for the fun of it.
Last, I use my Pulse, as by now all my defenses against being knocked from cover have worn off. So, I knock them back for my team to get a little more to do.

Usually after this, I get all the support I need from my troop at that door. I get heals, I get buffs, people make sure that I stay alive so they have an easier time and keep those imps from planting the bomb.

When assaulting, it's the same deal, the only difference being that I should follow my guys to one door, blasting off a couple Leg Shots and get in position to do my thing again.

Assault Cannons/Domination Warzone
The deal here is not that different from the Star Destroyer. I pick a cannon to declare as MY cannon, go there and do all the wonders I described above already. The only notable Difference here is, that I can actually utilize my range better.
Remember folks... you can hit them before they can hit you. I usually see them coming, pick the healer, and stop him with a Leg shot while his DPS buddies just keep running and out of his healing range to get slaughtered.

Huttball
Right, here I do nothing of the things I spoke of before. Huttball is not only fast, but staying in one place is exactly what the other team wants me to do. By far the best things I can do here, is stopping the enemy ballkeeper with my Leg Shot, or use my Pulse Grenade to keep the opponents from either me as the Ballkeeper, or the Ballkeeper of my team in general. Maybe use Cover and bring in an Aimed Shot for some Knockback too, if someone gets too pesky.
Remember, Huttball is about movement and teamwork a lot, not what class you play.

Okay, with all this out of my system... what are Gunslingers in my opinion?
We're the ones with the cloak and hat.
We're the ones with pistols on a battlefield full of Rifles and Assault Cannons.
We're the ones sporting a shirt and fancy pants, while everyone else flashes Durasteel.
We're the Commander of all those guys!

Gunslingers are a very tactic class, not about the DPS but adapting and using our large variety of skills appropriate to the situation on the battlefield. You need to have the cool head, you need to be the one who knows what's going on... YOU are the one who is supposed to be the most cunning/intelligent here.

Alright, enough ranting... that's how I see it and it served me well and even gave me a lot of MVP votes. So, I must be doing something right.

Yes i really think Crouch is instant to activate.

Crouch
Activation: Instant
Cooldown: 1s

Crouches in place, taking cover if used behind an object that provides cover. Crouching enables the use of cover-only abilities, and so long as you remain down behind a cover object, most ranged attackers strike your cover instead.

edit: ohh wait, maybe you too are confused by the animation and think you can't shoot until the animation is done - like the guy i quoted on page 38?

I thought gunslingers were pretty awful, and then I got online did some reasearch and realised where i was going wrong! instantly got a lot more damage churning out!

gunslingers are in line with where swtor should be the other classes most notably trooper and bounty hunter and the operative scoundrel need adjusting to this level.

Until you stack 140% ACC you will miss.

Most tank have 40% deflect now. and probably 60% absorbtion

Who ever never had , Snipe Ambush FT Doged when the guy has 10% left.

and lethality is a dumb build, you know why, because anyone with a brain on the other team would deny all your damage. Which is happening more often since almost everyone is playing pre-mades.

If your server suck, sure go ahead use lethality. if you play on a competitive pvp server well, even as marksmen i always out damage every lethality because because DISPELL.

If you don't keybind it there is terrible lag. I used it off my hotbar for several levels and it was about 3-4 seconds before my character would stop just standing there and go roll into cover, and until that happened my cover abilities were still greyed out, so no, I couldn't use it.

Rebinding it to my keyboard meant that it happened with only 1-2 seconds of lag which was much better, but still not ideal considering how sadly helpless we are out of cover.

Hey all. Let me first start out by saying that in no means am I a MMO, SW:TOR, Gunslinger, PvP Expert, yada yada yada. I'm just a random guy looking to have fun, and looking to compete in the WZs. I'm a pretty realistic guy when discussing my own abilities. Sometimes I'm in the upper percentile in the WZ, sometimes I just straight out blow. So, take this as a viewpoint from a generally objective guy.

At lvl 46, I feel like I have a pretty good grasp on the logics behind the GS class, and that's the main thing that's flawed with it. It's the LOGICS behind it.

Think about it.

None of us really enter cover because we WANT to. We enter cover because we NEED to. This is the system we have been presented with, and the fact is that we NEED to enter cover in order to carry out the majority of our heavy DPS skills (Sharpshooter).

This is already flawed... So, we NEED to enter cover. This "self-rooting" of sorts is obviously a disadvantage - so - to mitigate this NEED, the current system gives us defensive buffs, and claims to protect us from CC.

But again, this is flawed logic. So, you're telling me that we are presented with a system where we need to self-root (cover), and are provided with anti-CC abilities? While we are already rooted? Why does anyone ever really need to use CC on a gunslinger in cover? To prevent us from doing some pretty decent damage. The CC and defensive benefits of entering cover are counter-intuitive. Upon self-rooting, we are provided defense against things like more rooting? Crazy talk!

The main fix would be to develop a cover system that makes us WANT to enter cover. Of the top of my head, without much thought at all, I think a system like this would be much better, or at least a step in the right direction:

• Allow more Gunslinger's damage abilities to be used while standing, and on the run.
• Have entering cover grant a 15% to 25% increase in all damage dealt, as well as an increase in the RANGE of some abilities.
• Due to the increased damage provided in cover, REMOVE the CC protection and defensive bonuses that are currently provided with cover.

To me, it's that simple. This would create a system where the gunslingers WANT to enter cover for the damage and offensive increases, but the risk is that they are not provided with the CC prevention and defensive bonuses.

Honestly, to me, it just would seem more balanced. Enemy players would be on the lookout for gunslingers in cover, but the gunslingers would have to make a decision: stay in cover for the increased offense, or run away to fight another day.

I guess the core point is that the Devs create a system that is LOGICAL. One where we enter cover at risk, because we want to, not because we need to.

Thoughts?

Please try to learn to stop using your mouse to click on abilities and your keyboard to turn your character. You really need to use key-bindings in PvP.

And please stop using the default ability "Take Cover" (that cause you to "roll into cover") and start using "Crouch" (that cause you to crouch at place behind portable cover and instantly let you use abiliites such as Cover Pulse). I don't know how many times this have to be repeated. "Take Cover" is only useful when you actually want to roll into a cover for creative gameplay (such as the cover position on the other side of the casm when playing void star There are quite a lot of clever cover positions you can reach if you start to think outside the box).

To bad most of that is probably because of AOE damage, which makes that far less impressive.

To bad damage isnt everything.

To bad snipers lose to basically every other class 1v1

To bad snipers have without question the worst survivability in the game

All these kids coming in here saying that Sniper is good because this one time they saw a sniper do top damage or they themselves got top damage make me laugh. You guys have no clue what you're talking about. You are probably the same people that played WoW arena in the 1400s.

I'm a lvl 50 sniper and not near fully geared, however I am slowly seeing my dps and kills slowly rise as I gain gear.

Sure I am a very soft target but all in all I expect to be mashed from time to time.


I just want an additional 10m to my long range attacks, and something that decloaks those damn stealthies.