Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Huge bug with Ataru Form

First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

Hizoka's Avatar


Hizoka
01.25.2012 , 03:53 PM | #71
Quote: Originally Posted by darthhavok View Post
Now I COULD be wrong but.....isn't deminishing returns basically this:

(Hypothetical Numbers btw) If you have 25% crit chance and you add 10 crit rating and get 5% more to be at 30% crit chance then add 10 more rating and only get 4% to be at a total of 34% crit chance. Basically the more crit % you have the less % you get from each point of rating.

That's WoW's definition of diminishing returns I believe.
you are wrong. Diminishing return means something becomes less effective as you get more of it.


What you stated was an example of a diminishing return, now what diminishing returns are.

darthhavok's Avatar


darthhavok
01.25.2012 , 03:57 PM | #72
Quote: Originally Posted by Hizoka View Post
you are wrong. Diminishing return means something becomes less effective as you get more of it.


What you stated was an example of a diminishing return, now what diminishing returns are.
So I wasn't wrong, I just stated a specific example rather than a general concept. Gotcha
Y'all can't make me have a signature!!!!! No way no how!!!!

ThisGuyThat's Avatar


ThisGuyThat
01.25.2012 , 04:04 PM | #73
Dunno what's happening ITT, but I read the OP and laughed. Was the "huge" pun intentional?

ProjectAwesome's Avatar


ProjectAwesome
01.25.2012 , 04:14 PM | #74
Quote: Originally Posted by ThisGuyThat View Post
Dunno what's happening ITT, but I read the OP and laughed. Was the "huge" pun intentional?
Not intentional but very appropriate it seems. Heh.

ManOSteal's Avatar


ManOSteal
01.25.2012 , 04:25 PM | #75
Quote: Originally Posted by ThisGuyThat View Post
Dunno what's happening ITT, but I read the OP and laughed. Was the "huge" pun intentional?
hahaha didn't even notice it till now
ị█ị██████iiΘịị█ị_|\███████████DAMN THE MAN SAVE THE EMPIRE███████████)

ProjectAwesome's Avatar


ProjectAwesome
01.25.2012 , 04:53 PM | #76
I kinda want to be upset that the thread has been hijacked by theorycrafters, but at the same time people are viewing it now and knowing about the bug. So that is good.

NikonNikkor's Avatar


NikonNikkor
01.25.2012 , 05:28 PM | #77
Quote: Originally Posted by Tumri View Post
Stop pretending to be using math. You're going off gut feeling. Show me your "math" if it exists.
The Math for diminishing returns for critical strike:

For ease of use, all other things are equal.

For each 1% chance to critically strike an enemy, it provides a static increase to the statistical dps a character will do. It's important to note the word "static" in this formula. This is to say 1% increase in crit will provide a character that does 1000 dps an extra 10 dps. Now the character is doing 1010 dps (I'm using easy math for this, nothing too complicated). Now 10 dps over 1000 is a 1% increase.

Now the player chooses to increase crit another 1%. Now the character is doing 1020 dps. But the increase of 10 dps from 1010 dps to 1020 dps is NOT a 1% increase, it is slightly less than 1%. Over time and along the curve, if you do you f(x) limit as crit approaches 100% (or 1 in the math terms), you'll see the curve show diminishing returns over time and how valuable crit is at certain points along the curve.

Power as a stat suffers from the same diminishing returns, but not subject to the RNG detractor that crit is.

So what you have to do is go along the curve to find the value per point of increase of each stat: surge, power, and crit. And balance them accordingly to pick the best gear that has the largest increase of value per point provided along each curve.

I would be willing to do the actual analysis as I have crystal ball on my computer if it is of serious interest to the player base.

Kibaken's Avatar


Kibaken
01.25.2012 , 06:26 PM | #78
Come back from class and a ****-storm erupted. Dayum.

Quote: Originally Posted by CameronWinston View Post
Hey guys -

Thanks for this feedback. We will investigate this issue.

-Cameron

Thank you. I'm surprised no one responded to this.


Also, saying I'm not good at the class is just silly. If you read the conversation I was having with Tumri I conceded that, with the same gear setup, my tests provided that Annihilation did do more damage but not to the "Carnage is absolute ****" extent people have been exclaiming. This is extremely similar to the Assassination vs Combat debate (funny how the names are similar) Rogues had during the first 2 tiers of Cataclysm. On paper Mutilate does more DPS but, in practice, you can get away with using either one. I'm heavily getting that vibe from these two trees and, considering BioWare's stance, is pretty much how it's going to stay.

A lot of this probably has to do with 1) the Bleedout bug; 2) the massive amount of passive Accuracy Carnage gets. Having 113.6% as Carnage and going down to 110.6% with Annihilation means a lot of that Accuracy isn't wasted; and 3) Power is an incredibly useful stat. Only having 50 Power as Carnage probably contributes a lot to the vast difference of performance you experienced. Because of the instant Crits we get Crit is devauled.
The Aurion Legacy

Nylos Aevir Salrik Lyrax | Malkros Uhriel Flamel Kemarov
Prophecy of the Five

EasymodeX's Avatar


EasymodeX
01.25.2012 , 06:30 PM | #79
Quote: Originally Posted by NikonNikkor View Post
The Math for diminishing returns for critical strike:

For ease of use, all other things are equal.

For each 1% chance to critically strike an enemy, it provides a static increase to the statistical dps a character will do. It's important to note the word "static" in this formula. This is to say 1% increase in crit will provide a character that does 1000 dps an extra 10 dps. Now the character is doing 1010 dps (I'm using easy math for this, nothing too complicated). Now 10 dps over 1000 is a 1% increase.
You're describing diminishing marginal returns. The crit rating -> crit% conversion itself has a pretty strong diminishing return in it directly, which caps out at 29.999%.

Randomness's Avatar


Randomness
01.25.2012 , 07:25 PM | #80
Quote: Originally Posted by Hizoka View Post
it never will. by the math you need 100% crit damage and you would need to have over 50% chance to crit at the start to make it mathmatically possible.
Mmm, surge.