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Huge bug with Ataru Form

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jimlaheysadrunk's Avatar


jimlaheysadrunk
01.25.2012 , 01:38 PM | #41
this thread is getting heated..!!! man i love a good nerd war.

so basically what you guys are saying is that annihilation is not good and i should spec rage for end game ops?

but seriously, dont you guys think it would be more constructive to wait till a damage meter of some sorts is put in the game before you go all "im mr. leet know it all end game raider" on everybody? granted you guys are all probably 100x smarter than me in every aspect of life, but if there is no damage meter, wouldnt ALL of you not have any REAL facts to go by? recording videos and counting damage doesnt really mean a whole lot to me. but what do i know, im just a really really dumb casual player.

AcaciaDragon's Avatar


AcaciaDragon
01.25.2012 , 01:41 PM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by jimlaheysadrunk View Post
this thread is getting heated..!!! man i love a good nerd war.

so basically what you guys are saying is that annihilation is not good and i should spec rage for end game ops?

but seriously, dont you guys think it would be more constructive to wait till a damage meter of some sorts is put in the game before you go all "im mr. leet know it all end game raider" on everybody? granted you guys are all probably 100x smarter than me in every aspect of life, but if there is no damage meter, wouldnt ALL of you not have any REAL facts to go by? recording videos and counting damage doesnt really mean a whole lot to me. but what do i know, im just a really really dumb casual player.
Yeah but im impatient and would rather discuss it. I tend to learn more from open discussions than relying on meters.

Tumri's Avatar


Tumri
01.25.2012 , 01:52 PM | #43
We're not trading 1% damage for 1% crit unless you have a very strange gear setup with 126 rating weapons and far too much crit. In Columi gear you're trading something around MAYBE 20 damage at most for 2% crit. The 15-20 bonus damage is a lot less than 1% and the 2% crit is actually about the same in terms of DPS value even after taking into account power modifiers on attacks.
Wrath
Pre-Launch Hardcore Guild that has moved on to better games.
www.wrathnation.com

CameronWinston's Avatar


CameronWinston
01.25.2012 , 01:54 PM | #44 Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread. Next  
Hey guys -

Thanks for this feedback. We will investigate this issue.

-Cameron

jimlaheysadrunk's Avatar


jimlaheysadrunk
01.25.2012 , 01:55 PM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by AcaciaDragon View Post
Yeah but im impatient and would rather discuss it. I tend to learn more from open discussions than relying on meters.
problem that i see is that if the open discussions dont have any factual information, youre not really learning much. discuss all you like, but ill wait till i have proof from damage meters or at least a combat log.

Hizoka's Avatar


Hizoka
01.25.2012 , 01:56 PM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by EasymodeX View Post
Unless 1% crit inreases damage by 1.2%.
it never will. by the math you need 100% crit damage and you would need to have over 50% chance to crit at the start to make it mathmatically possible.

ManOSteal's Avatar


ManOSteal
01.25.2012 , 02:00 PM | #47
I think everyone tends to forget that at least by the wording of the talent when in blood frenzy you increase the chance to crit by 100% not that you have a 100% chance to crit when you have blood frenzy up. I have at least once had blood frenzy up and not crit with force scream. However whats really starting to tune up my damage is pumping crit as much as I can not so much surge or power but crit. for my carnage build I am mostly focused on strength, crit and endurance, with any surge I can pour in as a fourth stat. Basically to me carnage is a crit build.
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Hizoka's Avatar


Hizoka
01.25.2012 , 02:00 PM | #48
Quote: Originally Posted by Tumri View Post
We're not trading 1% damage for 1% crit unless you have a very strange gear setup with 126 rating weapons and far too much crit. In Columi gear you're trading something around MAYBE 20 damage at most for 2% crit. The 15-20 bonus damage is a lot less than 1% and the 2% crit is actually about the same in terms of DPS value even after taking into account power modifiers on attacks.
its not just 20 weapon damage though thats what you do not see. Power itsel increases EVERYTHING including crit damage, crits only increase your chance to crit. so every time you do not crit you get nothing from it unlike power, surge is devauled even more because you must crit for surge to even be added to the equation.


Power will always be a better stat then crit unless you are sub 20% crit.


mathmatically something like crit will always have a diminishing return the more you get of it. A straight damage increase does not. I really do not feel like explaining all the math, but Crit is for people who like to see big numbers every now and again, power is for people who actually want to do solid damage ALL THE TIME.

Tumri's Avatar


Tumri
01.25.2012 , 02:03 PM | #49
Quote: Originally Posted by AcaciaDragon View Post
This is where we will have to agree to disagree, like i explained before, crit is more important for annhilation as they have talents that directly help you get crits and benefit you when you get them. As Carnage I dont benefit as greatly from crit as no moves I have need to crit to grant me something. Force Scream is an insta crit i can control. This is why Power benefits me more. Im no longer trying to rely on crits but making sure when i do damage, its doing more per hit, than relying on per crit.

So Carnage and Annhilation do not have similar forms of damage as you proved earlier when you said annhilation did more dps than Carnage in your test.
There's a lot you're misunderstanding.

1. If a tree has talents that increase your chance to crit how does additional crit gain value? It doesn't. Talents like "Bleedout" which increases crit damage cause crit to gain value. Carnage has a similar talent.

2. If Carnage's insta-crit mechanic causes power to gain value then wouldn't Annihilation's insta-crit mechanic also cause power to gain value?

3. There is a difference between "forms of damage" and "amount of damage". I proved Annihilation does more DPS. They both have similar percentages of their damage come from similar sources. Force Scream and Ataru Form are Carnage's equivalent to Bleeds.

4. Both trees have a 30% crit damage talent(although Annihl's is broken). Both trees have force/internal damage that makes up a significant portion of their DPS(exact values are hard to know at this point). I don't understand why you think they have vastly different stat weights.
Wrath
Pre-Launch Hardcore Guild that has moved on to better games.
www.wrathnation.com

Tumri's Avatar


Tumri
01.25.2012 , 02:08 PM | #50
Quote: Originally Posted by Hizoka View Post
its not just 20 weapon damage though thats what you do not see. Power itsel increases EVERYTHING including crit damage, crits only increase your chance to crit. so every time you do not crit you get nothing from it unlike power, surge is devauled even more because you must crit for surge to even be added to the equation.


Power will always be a better stat then crit unless you are sub 20% crit.


mathmatically something like crit will always have a diminishing return the more you get of it. A straight damage increase does not. I really do not feel like explaining all the math, but Crit is for people who like to see big numbers every now and again, power is for people who actually want to do solid damage ALL THE TIME.
My guild's GM made a video pre-launch explaining theorycraft basics for Tormonger. Watch it. It's impossible to argue with you two when you can't even understand how things work. I'm not going to argue against your "feelings". It's becoming very tiring and I'm starting to not make sense as I try and explain the same thing 10 different ways hoping you somehow get it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8UtNLGn-7A
Wrath
Pre-Launch Hardcore Guild that has moved on to better games.
www.wrathnation.com