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Huge bug with Ataru Form

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Hizoka's Avatar


Hizoka
01.25.2012 , 11:50 AM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by Tumri View Post
Except for the fact that no gear in the game has a lot of power. It's a rare stat and it's very good for annihilation as well. Carnage and annihilation both have auto-crit abilities and both scale about the same with stats. Unlike WoW there is no way to get the stats you want by simply regemming. Power/Surge is something you'll need to struggle to get. I already posted how I conducted my tests. I didn't "race someone" because I am aware how stupid and inaccurate that would be.
i have worked my gear right now to only have a 25% chance to crit in Columi gear and i have over 500 power. My dealdy saber dots crit for well over 1500 damage.


Annihilation doesn't rely on crit like so many think, remember your dots are your major source of overall damage, and they get 15% more crit due to talents, so 25% crit + 5% IA buff and 15% talent crit buff puts dots at a 45% chance to crit.

Power is the best stat you can get next to Strength provided you have the accuracy you need.

Tumri's Avatar


Tumri
01.25.2012 , 11:52 AM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by AcaciaDragon View Post
Actually you can completely change the stat on some armor by replacing the enhancement (i do this for my champion gear).
I already know that. Everyone learns that at level 10. I was talking about the availability of higher tier mods with Power/Surge rating.

Quote: Originally Posted by AcaciaDragon View Post
I changed over about 120 accuracy on my chest boots and legs for Power,Crit, and Surge enhancements(i know im trading a 24 rating enhancement for a 22) but now im not getting anymore useless accuracy as Carnage.
I'm not 100% sure that's the right choice but nobody knows what accuracy is good for right now. I'm just extremely opposed to the idea that the devs would give us a ridiculous amount of accuracy while leaving it a useless stat.


Quote: Originally Posted by AcaciaDragon View Post
I saw my average Force Scream crit go from 2300 to 2600 and Massacres hit for about 100-150 more. And i still dont miss unless im up against a Tank.
...WHAT?!? You were talking about PvP this whole time? That's something you should have mentioned in your first post. I was talking about PvE for all the previous posts. You can't expect people to know you suddenly switched to talking about PvP if you don't mention it.

I'm really confused as to what the heck you're talking about in your posts now that you mentioned that "I don't miss unless I'm up against a tank" bit.
Wrath
Pre-Launch Hardcore Guild that has moved on to better games.
www.wrathnation.com

AcaciaDragon's Avatar


AcaciaDragon
01.25.2012 , 12:35 PM | #33
Quote: Originally Posted by Tumri View Post
I already know that. Everyone learns that at level 10. I was talking about the availability of higher tier mods with Power/Surge rating.



I'm not 100% sure that's the right choice but nobody knows what accuracy is good for right now. I'm just extremely opposed to the idea that the devs would give us a ridiculous amount of accuracy while leaving it a useless stat.




...WHAT?!? You were talking about PvP this whole time? That's something you should have mentioned in your first post. I was talking about PvE for all the previous posts. You can't expect people to know you suddenly switched to talking about PvP if you don't mention it.

I'm really confused as to what the heck you're talking about in your posts now that you mentioned that "I don't miss unless I'm up against a tank" bit.
The numbers are the same against a mob or a real player. Stats between pve and pvp gear are as well, except one has lower strength(20-30) which we make up with in expertise in pvp. The numbers i can output are pretty close to the same whether i pvp or do my dailies.

You may be extremely opposed to it, but they only made the bare minimum number of gear sets, mara are pure dps, so we get 1 set for 3 specs, 3 specs that are very different,(Juggs have 2, one for each role, tank and dps) so naturally its safe to say the stat priorities are different. And im sure they wanted to make sure the other 2 specs had the minimum accuracy needed for there specs, leaving Carnage high and dry(why i strongly believe we, Carnage MArauders, are at least 3% over the accuracy cap with our gear and why Aturu form gives us another 3% so we can spec out of the accuracy talent at higher levels if need be).

Also, BW forgot to add stats to all high end relics, so im sure theyve made more than a few mistakes on gear that people havent caught yet(you notice that our tier bracers only have 10 crit or power on them?)

AcaciaDragon's Avatar


AcaciaDragon
01.25.2012 , 12:42 PM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by Hizoka View Post
if you were good at the class, you would know. Its not a "feeling" but when an annihilation marauder in the exact same gear with exact same player can kill something is a much shorter time then carnage, logic dictates it does more damage.


Carnage is built around a 6 second debuff, annihilation is not it can also do damage while not on target. Carnage also has many wasted talents when it comes to raiding. For instance "Overwhelm" it sounds good and everything 2 points to root your ravage target, however it does not work on bosses, and if you play correctly you won't ravage when you know the target is gonna move 2 wasted points, "Narrowed Hatred" it is +3% to hit, sounds great, but atrau forms does that as well, and our teir gear is littered with accuracy, you have to basicaly steal other people gear to re-mod everything to be able to make use of the talented hit, 3 more points wasted or you burden you raid with an excess of states and much slower gearing up.


Annihilation never has "burst" moments like Carnage however in a raid situation nothing is better then consistancy, and no spec in the game right now can provide more consistant damage then Annihialtion.

Some people have been play this class for 8+ months, you might want to listen to people who have more experiance with the class then you can even get before the fall. Carnage used to be closer to Annihilation, but they changed that in the beta when they made Force scream a 9 second talented cooldown instead of 6 second.

That is just in damage, now in Utility no class in the game comes close to an annihilation marauder in a raid. With a 12 second leap and 6 second hard interrupt you can keep pretty much any mob from ever casting anything, no other class can solo lock down a mob. Take the 2 "bodyguards" in Kraggas palace, one is a "tank" the other is a "healer" that fight is stupid easy with a smart marauder because a smart marauder can take the healer out of the fight and leave everyone else to kill the "tank" with rotating saber ward, cloack of pain obsfucate, you can actually tank him because he doesn't do much damage and hes busy trying to heal.

Carnage is just inferior to Annihlation in ever way possible for PvE.
Ive read past comments from you in other threads and have little respect for what you say. 8+ months of playing this class means diddly squat when things constantly change in beta. The last 2 months are about all that matters, now, massive amounts of players are playing instead of the select few before who think they are better than everyone else because they were apart of the RNG made to select applicants.

Rage has more unsustained damage than the 3, Carnage is pretty constant and sustained, Force scream may be a big move but Massacre can crit up to what tends to be a base amount for Force Scream crits and i use that anywhere between 3-5 times in between Screams. Just because we have no set rotation doesnt mean we have no sustained dps.

Hizoka's Avatar


Hizoka
01.25.2012 , 12:48 PM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by AcaciaDragon View Post
Ive read past comments from you in other threads and have little respect for what you say. 8+ months of playing this class means diddly squat when things constantly change in beta. The last 2 months are about all that matters, now, massive amounts of players are playing instead of the select few before who think they are better than everyone else because they were apart of the RNG made to select applicants.

Rage has more unsustained damage than the 3, Carnage is pretty constant and sustained, Force scream may be a big move but Massacre can crit up to what tends to be a base amount for Force Scream crits and i use that anywhere between 3-5 times in between Screams. Just because we have no set rotation doesnt mean we have no sustained dps.
lol you think people will take you seriously when you say Rage has sustained damage when compared to Carnage much less Annihilation??

Sorry but no-one will respect anything you say with that kind of post. Range is only a gimmick spec and only good damage when you have 5 people in your smash. Its GARBAGE for any type of PvE and it even falls behind in PvP when you fight someone with the ability to out think a pet rock.

AcaciaDragon's Avatar


AcaciaDragon
01.25.2012 , 12:49 PM | #36
Quote: Originally Posted by Hizoka View Post
lol you think people will take you seriously when you say Rage has sustained damage when compared to Carnage much less Annihilation??

Sorry but no-one will respect anything you say with that kind of post. Range is only a gimmick spec and only good damage when you have 5 people in your smash. Its GARBAGE for any type of PvE and it even falls behind in PvP when you fight someone with the ability to out think a pet rock.
Read my post again. I said UNSUSTAINED. I know its the worst, thats why i brought it up. You said Carnage has some unsustained damage and it was only obivous to compare Carnage with Rage to give you an example of unsuistained.

Tumri's Avatar


Tumri
01.25.2012 , 12:59 PM | #37
Acacia I've read over your posts and a lot of what you're saying gives me the impression that you're a casual player and you aren't looking at things in an Ops/Hardcore perspective. What you've posted so far has been a lot of the "gut feeling" crap I mentioned in an earlier post. You mention DAILIES? Why in the world would anyone optimize themselves for dailies when they can be done by a fresh 50? Unless you have evidence to show why you think Carnage is superior your posts have no weight.

A word about stat priority...

Carnage and Annihilation specs both have extremely similar forms of damage. They both have approximately the same portion of damage auto-crit. They both have approximately the same portion of their damage benefit from +30% crit damage. They both have similar portions of damage that fall under force/internal damage that isn't affected by armor. It is extremely likely that when we're able to properly analyze stats for each spec using spreadsheets and simulators we will get fairly similar weights for each spec.


Note: You also seem to be over-valuing power greatly. The difference from when I had 425 power and 380 crit is minor when compared to my current 450 crit(Grr Rakata's Acc/Crit mods...) and 350 power. I only lost around 15 bonus damage to my main hand and gained a little over 2% crit. Napkin math shows a fairly equivalent trade although admittedly power is very slightly better for me at this point.
Wrath
Pre-Launch Hardcore Guild that has moved on to better games.
www.wrathnation.com

Hizoka's Avatar


Hizoka
01.25.2012 , 01:17 PM | #38
Quote: Originally Posted by Tumri View Post
Acacia I've read over your posts and a lot of what you're saying gives me the impression that you're a casual player and you aren't looking at things in an Ops/Hardcore perspective. What you've posted so far has been a lot of the "gut feeling" crap I mentioned in an earlier post. You mention DAILIES? Why in the world would anyone optimize themselves for dailies when they can be done by a fresh 50? Unless you have evidence to show why you think Carnage is superior your posts have no weight.

A word about stat priority...

Carnage and Annihilation specs both have extremely similar forms of damage. They both have approximately the same portion of damage auto-crit. They both have approximately the same portion of their damage benefit from +30% crit damage. They both have similar portions of damage that fall under force/internal damage that isn't affected by armor. It is extremely likely that when we're able to properly analyze stats for each spec using spreadsheets and simulators we will get fairly similar weights for each spec.


Note: You also seem to be over-valuing power greatly. The difference from when I had 425 power and 380 crit is minor when compared to my current 450 crit(Grr Rakata's Acc/Crit mods...) and 350 power. I only lost around 15 bonus damage to my main hand and gained a little over 2% crit. Napkin math shows a fairly equivalent trade although admittedly power is very slightly better for me at this point.
no i am not over valuing power. Power increses all damage crit included, so your crits hit harder which make the bonus damage from them even greater. Power is second only to strength in terms of straight damage gain.


no matter how you ever look at it 1% damage will ALWAYS AND FOREVER be a bigger upgrade then 1% crit

EasymodeX's Avatar


EasymodeX
01.25.2012 , 01:31 PM | #39
Unless 1% crit inreases damage by 1.2%.

AcaciaDragon's Avatar


AcaciaDragon
01.25.2012 , 01:37 PM | #40
Quote: Originally Posted by Tumri View Post
Acacia I've read over your posts and a lot of what you're saying gives me the impression that you're a casual player and you aren't looking at things in an Ops/Hardcore perspective. What you've posted so far has been a lot of the "gut feeling" crap I mentioned in an earlier post. You mention DAILIES? Why in the world would anyone optimize themselves for dailies when they can be done by a fresh 50? Unless you have evidence to show why you think Carnage is superior your posts have no weight.

A word about stat priority...

Carnage and Annihilation specs both have extremely similar forms of damage. They both have approximately the same portion of damage auto-crit. They both have approximately the same portion of their damage benefit from +30% crit damage. They both have similar portions of damage that fall under force/internal damage that isn't affected by armor. It is extremely likely that when we're able to properly analyze stats for each spec using spreadsheets and simulators we will get fairly similar weights for each spec.


Note: You also seem to be over-valuing power greatly. The difference from when I had 425 power and 380 crit is minor when compared to my current 450 crit(Grr Rakata's Acc/Crit mods...) and 350 power. I only lost around 15 bonus damage to my main hand and gained a little over 2% crit. Napkin math shows a fairly equivalent trade although admittedly power is very slightly better for me at this point.
This is where we will have to agree to disagree, like i explained before, crit is more important for annhilation as they have talents that directly help you get crits and benefit you when you get them. As Carnage I dont benefit as greatly from crit as no moves I have need to crit to grant me something. Force Scream is an insta crit i can control. This is why Power benefits me more. Im no longer trying to rely on crits but making sure when i do damage, its doing more per hit, than relying on per crit.

So Carnage and Annhilation do not have similar forms of damage as you proved earlier when you said annhilation did more dps than Carnage in your test.