No, You May Not Roll on Items for Another Class and Strip Out the Mods

I think so. The item is designed to be worn by all of the classes that can equip it.

wearable or not: feeling entitled to get a piece of loot over another person is simply greed/selfishness. Calling it "need" is just being dishonest.

I don't have a trooper or sentinel (well, neither of them are over level 1).

My smuggler has 2 pieces of jedi armor: the level 15 aspiring knight legs and chest, since I can make them on my main.

I don't really see the relevance.

This looks like a fallacious argument, specifically, an "argument by gibberish".

did you actually have some sort of point?

It's definitely being GREEDY if you're rolling NEED on everything while the others in the group are only rolling on items with the stats that they use.

I have no problem with people rolling NEED all the time, but it's when they are trying to be deceptive about it, that it's an issue. Come correct, or don't come at all.

just because you can doesnt mean you should.

i can run a red light but should i?

the agruements supporting such behavior make me smile and question your parents parenting skills or lack of.

there are some options the op can use

1) ask for loot rules. if none or those that you dont like leave group

2) do what you just did and asked the person why he rolled. then when something nice drops for him need on his stuff. people like to state i came in here for such and such. keep that in mind when the same person rolls on stuff your class can use then do it to him. this gives alone i have found is the best teacher. paybacks are hell.

3) if a healer dont heal the person. let the dps die. let the tank sweat it out some if it was he. usually good tanks dont treat thier healers this crappy.

4) if a tank then dont taunt mobs off that person. let him die a few times or all the time.

5) if dps sadly you got screwed. not much to do here.

6) write the persons name down and also his guild. dont group with him again. stay away from his guildies. same like minded people usually guild together. good guilds know of thier bad apples and remove them. bad ones are all bad.

7) if a healer or tank just leave the group. make them look for another. in these games a good healer and or tank are priceless. those you put on a friends list and play with or even guild with.

there are alot of things you can do. doing nothing just lets this person know its ok and he will keep on doing it. sadly alot of people will need everything and is why there are guilds and people who need lfd. it is these types of mannorless players that need lfd.

In all actuality, his argument fails based on one simple underlying assumption of his very own making.

In arguing that people rolling need is SELFISH, he misses the fact that people in MMOs roll need because it increases their stats and performance - therefore increasing the contribution they make to the entire MMO population. By getting better stats that better fit their class role, they can then perform their role better in Flashpoints, Warzones, etc. allowing for other people who group up with them to experience the content. Someone who rolls need on something that makes their costume look better is not contributing to the MMO experience.

Naturally, someone with a singular and insular-based, antisocial viewpoint would never even consider this. And, hence, you have his thinking.

If you are rolling on an item for just the 1 mod...when someone else can use the whole item that is pretty f'd up. Flashpoints are a group thing, thus you should show some courtesy to the other people with you. What if you needed the new lightsaber that just dropped and some tech user takes it so he can put the enhancement in his boots? I doubt you would be too happy.

Pulling **** like that would get you booted from any *decent* group.

No, I said that the piece that was quoted did not contain any logic, so citing "faulty" logic was an invalid argument.


I'm quite serious about this: if you're upset by someone in your group rolling need in a way that you think is inappropriate, then you're just being greedy. Waving the "I need it" flag is just self deception, and everyone would be better being a little more honest with themselves.

No, it just increase your stats. It does not benefit the community at all.

Even if I did, I can point out that following this line of argument makes someone who rolls need and then puts the item on the GTN a potentially even less selfish individual, likewise for someone who need to give it to an undergeared friend... since both of those cases can increase the average stats in the community by a greater amount.

Ah, the ad hominen fallacy, the refuge of those who can't come up with an actual valid argument.

I'm not really sure how taking the stance of "stop being so greedy and selfish and be more honest with yourself" is antisocial viewpoint.

The only gears that are made for certain classes are the ones that have the class listed in the item itself. Otherwise it's free for all for anyone that can wear the armor type when it comes to orange custom gears.

Mods don't dictate who can wear them, as the marauder could easily swap out the mods right on the spot with his existing ones if he already carries them.

Rolling on the same item type as the one your class typically wears I'd think it's fine if they're able to use it right away and it's for them personally and not for an alt/companion.

I detest the people that roll "need" for their alts or companions on these gears more than appearance swappers especially when the people in the group can actually use/need them right away.

These items are usually just palette swaps of the same gear you normally find anyways, and the stat gain might "seem" to be beneficial, but it's largely insignificant when you actually put them on. Whatever changes it makes to your stats won't be game changing, even if you had won it and put it on you won't deal noticeably more damage/heal more just because of that one piece of orange gear.


I pass on anything that isn't relevant to my character that I play, I'll need on gear of the same armor type and main stats as my advance class, and I'll greed when the item is of no immediate use to anyone in the group (ie. a class that isn't present).

You're better off just doing more runs if that crappy gear is so important to you, stats won't matter much until late/end game when they actually add up to something useful. It's a ~30 gear, you'll swap out the mods by the time you go to/finish the next planet anyways so all that's left is the appearance.

You know what the funny thing is... this is really TOR issue, not an MMO issue.

In wow, people used to LOLOLOL at "hunter lootz" because it was a big joke. Only the biggest idiots and newbs didn't know what gear was designed for their class. It was a 1 in 500 issue, not 1 in 10 as it seems to be in TOR.

I hope people realize that this is basically a sociological test and an intelligence test rolled into one.

And people who say things like the quote above.... are failing. Miserably.

Whilst I concur, I gave up a considerable amount of time ago because there’s simply no way that their short-termist, egotistical conceptualisation of social dynamics will ever become prevalent. The simple fact of the matter is that their attitude cannot become the dominant one due to sheer necessity, if people were Needing ‘because they can’ or for aesthetics rather than quantifiable statistical benefits that improve performance then we degenerate into a Hobbean state due to the lack of any convention-based social contract that mitigates brutal selfishness. Every item would be pounced upon for reasons that, as you rightly identify, impede collective development since there'd be a far slower pace of upgrading thus a far slower rate of overall progression. As progressing up various tiers is a significant part of the game, it would cease to function in a manner that fulfils its intended purpose. Whilst any desire to upgrade may be rooted partly in selfishness (or wholly if you read many theories on the origin of altruism), that does not suddenly make it equal in outcome or justification as every other selfish act. Why? Because quite independent of a selfish act is the quantifiable benefit to the 'overall happiness' in terms of progression and collective ability to access content or achieve (

(For the purposes of the above, I don't think that selling on the GTN counts for multiple very obvious reasons; ranging from the lost benefit during the time of sale, the degenerative effect on the community via the Need-for-all, the inability to know who purchases and what improvement that makes, or the ability of anyone to roll on a BoE item thus they possess equal capacity to 'benefit' the whole by selling it to the market.)

I would suggest you don't waste your time on them because they're trying to be loud simply out of the desire to troll or because, as I said earlier, such individuals need to be vocal in order to create the fallacious impression that they are a sizeable minority. If they are sufficiently sizeable then our little convention-based society won't metaphorically punch them in the face as frequently for their actions due to worrying about repercussions. Even if they are focused upon selfishness that causes things to degenerate then they still need some level of co-operation as they know they're outnumbered thus need it to 'survive.'In truth, any polls with a large sample always reveal that they are a tiny minority thus we should give them a metaphorical punch.