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Bioware caved in to the forum whines, prepare for the start of a doomed pvp game.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Bioware caved in to the forum whines, prepare for the start of a doomed pvp game.

Chaos_Distortion's Avatar


Chaos_Distortion
01.25.2012 , 11:26 AM | #331
Quote: Originally Posted by Sumwun View Post
You don't read these forums much, do you? It has been stated numerous times, BY BW, that they pay close attention to metrics when researching complaints about imbalance. To say a dev doesn't test prior to making chances is ludicrous. at best.
You would be surprised, really surprised if you have played as much MMOs as I have and seen some of the MMO changes that I have where the devs themselves admitted to not testing the changes or one of their disgruntled employees revealing the fact.
Empathetic (Chaos Legacy): 50 Scoundrel (Sawbones) Healer, Empathetic: 50 Sage (Seer) Healer on Helm of Graush and various other Alts.
Been playing pvp Support/Healing in nearly every MMO since 1997 UO.

Egnar's Avatar


Egnar
01.25.2012 , 11:27 AM | #332
Quote: Originally Posted by Chaos_Distortion View Post
It's funny because pvp should be balanced around team pvp and not 1v1s. Your ignorance to that fact shows in this post. So scoundrels/operatives shouldn't have any stuns at all but sorcerors should be allowed to perma stun lock someone because there's more than one doing it? Are you honestly taking yourself seriously right now, really? 3 second stun that triggers full resolve against a 4 second ranged stun that doesn't trigger full resolve, which one is worse? Riddle me that.
Riddle you what? I'm not saying that sorcerers should or should not be nerfed or that I agree or disagree with the Operatives nerf. All I'm saying is that the comparison made was apples and oranges. You can't counter an argument about a single player class having exceptionally high dps needing adjustments to a highly hypothetical situation in which a player is systematically stunned by the same move from the same exact class twice in a row - Additionally, this type of stunning can happen with any combination of a Sorcerer + Any class with a stun. Once again: I am not endorsing or bashing the argument just saying it's a silly comparison to the original argument.

Gryn's Avatar


Gryn
01.25.2012 , 11:27 AM | #333
Quote: Originally Posted by Chaos_Distortion View Post
Sorcerors/Sages can do it much worse and at ranged, rofl.. The kids in this thread are hilarious. I can be stunned for 4 seconds at range by a sorceror, then have another sorceror stun me again from ranged, finally triggering full resolve but in that time span I was stunned for a full 8 seconds. You tardaloos complaining about a 3 second stun simply ignore those facts, don't you? A 3 second stun that gives you full resolve, while the 4 second stuns don't so you can stun someone again.. How convenient for all of you bads to ignore this simple fact. As a scoundrel healer I run into premades with two sorcerors all the time, that chain stun me for 8 seconds straight while slowing the **** out of me with force lightning spam, so there's no way for me to escape.. Do I come on the forums and cry about it? No I don't..
I play an Op. They were OP as hell. Now they are more in line with the other classes. As someone else stated earlier... if they were the counter class to another class it would have been okay but being able to burn through any class... anytime... anywhere in less than a few seconds? The class needed balance. Now Ops/Smugglers have to work for their kills. Just like any other class.

Get over it. Or quit. Either way just shut up about it.
VexX Gaming United

Chaos_Distortion's Avatar


Chaos_Distortion
01.25.2012 , 12:33 PM | #334
Quote: Originally Posted by Gryn View Post
I play an Op. They were OP as hell. Now they are more in line with the other classes. As someone else stated earlier... if they were the counter class to another class it would have been okay but being able to burn through any class... anytime... anywhere in less than a few seconds? The class needed balance. Now Ops/Smugglers have to work for their kills. Just like any other class.

Get over it. Or quit. Either way just shut up about it.
No you don't and this is why I endorse Bioware to have Forum avatars with a person's class and level. To expose claimers like you. Mythic did it with Warhammer, hopefully Bioware does it here.
Empathetic (Chaos Legacy): 50 Scoundrel (Sawbones) Healer, Empathetic: 50 Sage (Seer) Healer on Helm of Graush and various other Alts.
Been playing pvp Support/Healing in nearly every MMO since 1997 UO.

Irishbrewed's Avatar


Irishbrewed
01.25.2012 , 12:41 PM | #335
Not sure you understand that this forum means very little to a developer... That's the proplem MMO players think these companies really give a crap about anything on here. Sure they will pay attention to some HOT TOPICS to some extent... But you think they really nerf a class cause of whiners? Come on! They have state of the art metrics and can tell what's going on in their game, just because the operative got a nerf doesn't mean they caved, it means that some of the whiners QQ had validity.. Don't be so entitled

I would also like to add, the the "rogue" archtype, is one of the hardest to balance for an mmo and pvp... It's a slippery slope.

NoxiousAlby's Avatar


NoxiousAlby
01.25.2012 , 12:46 PM | #336
Quote: Originally Posted by Chaos_Distortion View Post
The title says it all, Bioware like every other developer caved in to the very vocal forum minority which also usually tends to be some of the very worse MMO players in MMOs. This is the beginning of the end. Scoundrels/Operatives did not need a nerf Bioware, as a healer I say this. You need to test your game and use your own metrics before implementing any class changes in game. Do not go by made up scenarios and imaginary numbers that forum posters use to try to make a point. That's the mistake of past mmo devs that has caused their subscriptions to dwindle in the past and I say that as an MMO veteran since 1997 UO, that has played nearly every MMO since then. You should, if possible release surveys in game to also see how players feel about x and x changes before implementing them. You can also use surveys to see if players think some classes are over the top, currently. You will see that the majority of people that actually play the game at 50, don't feel like the random forum whiners/posers that aren't even 50 yet.
Sorry but your post made me laugh out loud, especially the last bit. Reminded me of Ghost Crawlers comments that combat abilities are geared for lvl 80, so prepare to get rofl stomped till you hit lvl cap.

Sorry OP you couldnt be more wrong.................when a class is capapble of knocking you to the ground and killing you before you have the chance to even get back up then something is wrong. I sympathise with players who went with the single character OP/scoundrel but opposing players need to have a fighting chance.

Thing is that any player skilled at pvp will still find their victims with the changes, it's only the unskilled who wont find it so easy anymore.

GameNirvana's Avatar


GameNirvana
01.25.2012 , 01:02 PM | #337
Quote: Originally Posted by Chaos_Distortion View Post
The title says it all, Bioware like every other developer caved in to the very vocal forum minority which also usually tends to be some of the very worse MMO players in MMOs. This is the beginning of the end. Scoundrels/Operatives did not need a nerf Bioware, as a healer I say this. You need to test your game and use your own metrics before implementing any class changes in game. Do not go by made up scenarios and imaginary numbers that forum posters use to try to make a point. That's the mistake of past mmo devs that has caused their subscriptions to dwindle in the past and I say that as an MMO veteran since 1997 UO, that has played nearly every MMO since then. You should, if possible release surveys in game to also see how players feel about x and x changes before implementing them. You can also use surveys to see if players think some classes are over the top, currently. You will see that the majority of people that actually play the game at 50, don't feel like the random forum whiners/posers that aren't even 50 yet.
They made the nerf b/c their metrics showed they needed to. Your viewpoint of those classes is probably unclear at best, as is mine.

They used their metrics, and they will continue to use them. Otherwise they woulda already nerfed Sorcerer hardcore b/c all the whiners that complain about them.

Kuari's Avatar


Kuari
01.25.2012 , 01:26 PM | #338
Quote: Originally Posted by Chaos_Distortion View Post
NO they weren't, stop lying.. Two days wasn't enough time for them to test anything.
If you're calling me a liar on this particular subject, you're also calling BioWare liars. Pay attention to their news postings. This is the exact reason they described for looking into some class balance issues. Two days is plenty of time to test if you have the data from multiple servers available at your fingertips plus plenty of internal testing.
Standards are made to be broken.
- Crie - 50 Sniper - Engineer spec -
- Kuari - 35 Assassin - Tank spec -

Rockstar's Avatar


Rockstar
01.25.2012 , 01:30 PM | #339
I agree that nerfs are never the answer and am a firm believer to look at the classes that are lacking instead.

But OP, come on man, you're coming off a fairly pompous with this "I've been playing since UO" garbage.

Believe me when I tell you I've been playing just as long as you and I refuse to believe that kind "experience" give me any credibility or enhances my opinions.

Chiricahua's Avatar


Chiricahua
01.25.2012 , 01:33 PM | #340
I agree the nerf was overdone. But, sadly even without the nerf this game will fail unless they fix faction imbalance, eliminate constant queueing for huttball, and the general poor malaise of a system masquerading as pvp.