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Huge bug with Ataru Form

First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

ProjectAwesome's Avatar


ProjectAwesome
01.24.2012 , 02:16 PM | #1
Those of you who are Carnage specced may have noticed this, especially if you have done many operations. I first noticed it on the world boss on Belsavis, and then confirmed it later against Karagga in Karagga's Palace and on Graj in the Eternity Vault.

Ataru Form is not affected by increased hitbox size. A larger enemy typically has a larger 'hitbox' at which range is calculated; for these large enemies, being in melee range is not calculated from their center but from their edges. All melee attacks work this way on these enemies (Want to see? Go fight a Wild Rancor in the Belsavis Bonus Area. Other enemies are also large enough and easy to get to but this is the one I most quickly remember). Even Ranged attacks have a larger range due to a boss's increased hitbox. Essentially, it is expected that every form of attack is affected by the hitbox size.

The proc from Ataru Form, however, is not. Against a larger enemy, being in range for your melee attacks does not mean you are in range for Ataru Form. This is extremely easy to test. Stand at the outer edge of a giant enemy and use Massacre. You'll attack him as normal, deal damage, spend rage, etc. But you won't get your Ataru Form proc, even though it is supposed to be guaranteed. In fact, if you continue hitting the mob at this range, you'll find that you never get an Ataru Form proc. Ever.

"Big Deal," some of you may say. "Just stand closer." While, at the moment, that is obviously the only recourse against the bug (and since Ataru Form says nothing in the tooltip about it functioning different from every other single attack in the game, I assume it is indeed a bug and not a feature), it isn't sufficient and doesn't mean the bug should not be taken seriously. Against a boss like Karagga, being in range for Ataru Form can mean being required to stand in deadly, deadly fire. And when soloing, large enemies cannot even be within range. As soon as you move closer to them, they move back a step to be at the edge of their hitbox as well. This is easily demonstrated by the Wild Rancor mobs on the Belsavis Bonus Area. It is impossible to hit these enemies with Ataru Form.

And being unable to get Ataru procs gimps the Carnage spec immeasurably, a spec that is already (by some metrics) inferior damage-wise to Rage and especially Annihilation.

This is an easily reproducible bug that needs to be better known. Watch out if you plan on going Carnage, and Bioware: you need to get on this.

AcaciaDragon's Avatar


AcaciaDragon
01.24.2012 , 04:16 PM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by ProjectAwesome View Post
Those of you who are Carnage specced may have noticed this, especially if you have done many operations. I first noticed it on the world boss on Belsavis, and then confirmed it later against Karagga in Karagga's Palace and on Graj in the Eternity Vault.

Ataru Form is not affected by increased hitbox size. A larger enemy typically has a larger 'hitbox' at which range is calculated; for these large enemies, being in melee range is not calculated from their center but from their edges. All melee attacks work this way on these enemies (Want to see? Go fight a Wild Rancor in the Belsavis Bonus Area. Other enemies are also large enough and easy to get to but this is the one I most quickly remember). Even Ranged attacks have a larger range due to a boss's increased hitbox. Essentially, it is expected that every form of attack is affected by the hitbox size.

The proc from Ataru Form, however, is not. Against a larger enemy, being in range for your melee attacks does not mean you are in range for Ataru Form. This is extremely easy to test. Stand at the outer edge of a giant enemy and use Massacre. You'll attack him as normal, deal damage, spend rage, etc. But you won't get your Ataru Form proc, even though it is supposed to be guaranteed. In fact, if you continue hitting the mob at this range, you'll find that you never get an Ataru Form proc. Ever.

"Big Deal," some of you may say. "Just stand closer." While, at the moment, that is obviously the only recourse against the bug (and since Ataru Form says nothing in the tooltip about it functioning different from every other single attack in the game, I assume it is indeed a bug and not a feature), it isn't sufficient and doesn't mean the bug should not be taken seriously. Against a boss like Karagga, being in range for Ataru Form can mean being required to stand in deadly, deadly fire. And when soloing, large enemies cannot even be within range. As soon as you move closer to them, they move back a step to be at the edge of their hitbox as well. This is easily demonstrated by the Wild Rancor mobs on the Belsavis Bonus Area. It is impossible to hit these enemies with Ataru Form.

And being unable to get Ataru procs gimps the Carnage spec immeasurably, a spec that is already (by some metrics) inferior damage-wise to Rage and especially Annihilation.

This is an easily reproducible bug that needs to be better known. Watch out if you plan on going Carnage, and Bioware: you need to get on this.
Ive seen people post on this, Are you sure its a bug? Have you tried zooming all the way out to see if the Ataru proc is actually showing up towards the top of the mob? It could be you just cant see the number.

ProjectAwesome's Avatar


ProjectAwesome
01.24.2012 , 05:51 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by AcaciaDragon View Post
Ive seen people post on this, Are you sure its a bug? Have you tried zooming all the way out to see if the Ataru proc is actually showing up towards the top of the mob? It could be you just cant see the number.
When Ataru Form Procs you also get the Blood Frenzy buff if the buff is not on. The complete lack of such a buff for 20 seconds of Massacre-ing an enemy is a pretty strong indicator by itself that Ataru Form is not proccing, since Blood Frenzy is a 100% chance on Ataru Proc and Ataru Proc is a 100% chance on Massacre.

ProjectAwesome's Avatar


ProjectAwesome
01.25.2012 , 12:13 AM | #4
Those of you who have experienced this bug, write up a bug report in-game! You can even just copy-paste my original post if you are so inclined.

Hell, if you haven't encountered it, do it anyways.

Hizoka's Avatar


Hizoka
01.25.2012 , 12:22 AM | #5
Carnage is garbage for DPS in PvE anyways.

ProjectAwesome's Avatar


ProjectAwesome
01.25.2012 , 12:55 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Hizoka View Post
Carnage is garbage for DPS in PvE anyways.
And that means the bug shouldn't be fixed why? Even if it is true, which without DPS meters, you can't even really prove?

Kibaken's Avatar


Kibaken
01.25.2012 , 01:22 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Hizoka View Post
Carnage is garbage for DPS in PvE anyways.
You're so incredibly wrong I cannot possibly begin to explain how bad you are.



Also, this needs to be addressed. maxmeleerangeisbestmeleerange.jpg
The Aurion Legacy

Nylos Aevir Salrik Lyrax | Malkros Uhriel Flamel Kemarov
Prophecy of the Five

Tumri's Avatar


Tumri
01.25.2012 , 01:30 AM | #8
Sigh.. I love the Carnage spec but this is just another reason to stay Annihilation. Carnage's DPS was already terrible in comparison.. Yes I know there are no combat logs and no DPS meters but the most effective way to test your DPS right now is to get saved to a Hard/Nightmare instance on Council and killing Marauders while letting the fight enrage/reset afterward. I found that in half rakata/columi w/columi weapons the Carnage Spec was a good 200 DPS below Annihilation while self buffed and stimmed over the course of ~100 tests(I used recorded videos as well as a virtual stopwatch keybound to my ~ key). Carnage did 1400 DPS while Annihilation surpassed 1600. Carnage was 1300 and Annihilation was around 1500 when I was in tionese/columi gear so it's not even scaling that much better than Annihilation. This bug just makes Carnage a terrible spec for everything but Pylons(EV) and Double Bounty Hunters(KP).
Wrath
Pre-Launch Hardcore Guild that has moved on to better games.
www.wrathnation.com

zantezutske's Avatar


zantezutske
01.25.2012 , 01:54 AM | #9
the whole marauder class is a joke its 50% jugg and 50% wannabe darth mauls.

Eleftheria's Avatar


Eleftheria
01.25.2012 , 02:03 AM | #10
yea OP is right,i did report the same thing in few topics in the past week or so,but i actually didnt know the reason behind it till i read this,i noticed my blood frenzy and ataru form strikes not going on for a minute or two during fights in EV,(prio to 1.1) especially annihlation droid,and gharj...and yea this bug is really bad for carnage,,since you wont get blood frenzy nor excutioner procs,which beside the damage lost from ataru form is quite a hit for the spec.

and on a side for someone said another reason to stick to annihlation,you know that Bleedout talent there is bugged too?;p but yea in general i hope they fix those bugs soon,am sticking to rage atm,while i love the spec,i am more comfortable in fights with boss moving with the other 2 specs
Asura-Zabrak Sith Marauder-level 50-the progenitor(RP-PVE)