Can a Jugg DPS spec be on par with a Marauder's DPS?

You dont know, and they should be equal to everyone else.

Juggs dont have any CC so theres no reason why they shouldnt do equal dps (cancels the "they have heavy armor argument").

once again check

http://sithwarrior.com/forums/Thread...endium?page=11

say it to these guys who have proved that juggernaught dps is more than capable of hanging with marauder

Go immortal or vengeance/immortal hybrid spec and you never have to worry about dps. Or at least until vengeance's DoT's are properly optimized. For me I think of it like this, 2 lightsabers > 1 lightsaber and on top that, their Ataru stance procs additional swings . I think it's safe to say that marauders can out dps juggs but i could be wrong.

the offhand item we get stats wise rivals some of-hand sabers, though the 2 sabers v 1 saber is the current argument right now, added that immortal is our tanking spec if you want to dps its vengeance all the way pretty much, that link i posted earlier in the thread is good to look at they have proved that juggernaught dps can keep up with marauders with the right gear of course

We have been told that all dps classes will do competitive dps (5%). Beyond that no one knows.

Anyone who tells you otherwise is just guessing.

Do you play juggy?
Marauder off hand does 50% damage from main hand i believe and their extra hits on Ataru has a long cooldown(6 or more seconds i believe). But, vengence juggy has dots on 3 of the abilities and shien form both refunds 1 rage for each rage spender and increses all of our damage by a whooping 12%.

I believe that pretty much cancels each other. In theory it should be about the same.

Ataru's extra attack is on a 1.5 second cooldown meaning it can occur every time you hit an ability. Also if they are carnage spec their offhand is 66% of the mainhand. Carnage isn't even their big dps spec. Annihilation is which has better dots than Vengeance, hard hitters just like vengeance, more mobility than vengeance, and builds rage with the damage they do from dots.

I was raiding as a DPS Juggernaut. I cleared all normal modes, and the only thing we haven't killed so far is hard mode Soa (as we're a pretty casual group of friends with a relaxed schedule). However, the guild is now in need of a Marauder, so I'm powerlevelling one of those now.

I tried both specs in PvE and PvP situations. Personally, I found Vengeance to have the easiest, most traditional rotation (1-2-3-1-4-1-5-1). It has very steady, constant damage. Ideally, the spec of choice in PvE DPS situations.

Rage has great burst and fantastic AoE, but it unfortunately is very situational and has a slight ramp up time. It's rotation is also slightly more cumbersome, as you find yourself spamming your SA/Assault for Vicious Slash when everything else is on cooldown. It does, however, have the armor pen that Vengeance lacks. This spec is generally better on heavy movement fights (Obliterate & the speed boost) or fights with lots of adds (5k+ Smash Crits).


However, I like to think in terms of raid utility, so let's go over the two Advanced Classes from a DPS perspective:

Sith Warrior Utility (both classes have these):
-Intimidating Roar (AoE Fear, 6 secs. Breaks on Damage) [Droids Immune]
-Force Choke (Channeled 3 second stun)
-Force Crush [Rage Spec only] (Short variable slow, very situational. Good for peels.).

DPS Juggernaut Utility:
-Sunder Armor (4% Raid-Wide Armor Pen, Stacks 5 times [20%])
-Intercede (Target takes 20% less damage for 6 seconds and has 50% reduced threat, 20s cooldown)
-Chilling Scream (AoE Slow, spammable.)
These next two "utilities" are essentially useless, as they should never be needed. However, in a pinch, they do help.
-The ability to tank when cooldowns are up if necessary.
-Single Target & AoE Taunts (Only should be used when the tank is too busy to taunt and someone squishier than you is getting beat on, best immediately followed by Saber Ward to save healer resources)

Marauder Utility:
-Bloodthirst (+15% Damage & Healing for 15 seconds. Arguably the most important raid utility. Used on every single boss fight.)
-Predation (+50 Move Speed, +10% Ranged Defenses, lasts 10 seconds. Very useful in movement phases)
-Disable Droid (Long-term Droid CC)
-Deadly Throw (-20% Target Healing Received Debuff)
-Crippling Slash (Single-target slow. 50% for 12 seconds.)
-Obfuscate (-90% target accuracy for 6 seconds. Handy in PvP to save your healer.)
-Undying Rage (-99% damage taken for 6 seconds. Good if an add does a lot of damage and dies fast. Can save healer resources. Ideally never used.)


In terms of Juggernaut DPS, the builds are fairly equal in output, so it's more of a playstyle choice at the moment. However, everything I've seen suggests that Marauders do more damage than Juggernauts. They also bring far more utility to a group than a Juggernaut does. No raid group will run without a Marauder. They will, however, run without a Juggernaut DPS.

If you want to DPS in a raid, I would honestly say that you should roll Marauder. At this point in time, you would be playing a spec that does less damage and brings less raid utility, and would just be hurting your raid. Juggernauts are fantastic tanks and great in PvP in both offensive and defensive roles, but Marauders are just better in terms of PvE DPS.

Can you provide some information about that? I'd like to see some sort of data that "suggests that Marauders do more damage than Juggernauts". I wouldn't be completely surprised if that were the case, but I suspect you're just talking out of your *** (like most people that make claims about comparative DPS).

As far as raid utility, I'm certainly envious of the 15% raid-damage cooldown that Marauders have; that alone is a good reason to level a Marauder. However, I don't think it's fair to say that Juggernauts don't bring comparable raid utility. Juggernauts can be tanks or DPS, which, in my opinion, is just as valuable to a raid as a 15% extra damage for 15 seconds. Not in terms of a fight by fight basis, to be sure, but in the long run of managing a flexible raid.

I'll definitely concede the point that DPS-wise, Marauder seems to be the way to go, but raiding isn't just about DPS numbers. In my current raid group, I run as Vengeance, but I keep a tanking set ready to go at all times in case a fight calls for two tanks (rarely, atm) or the MT can't make a raid (also rare). This gives the raid flexibility that wouldn't be possible with a Marauder. So far, none of content we've cleared has required the Marauder buff, save for maybe HM Soa which has been giving us trouble in P3. The point is, as a Juggernaut I can bring a different type of raid utility that may be even better in the long run.

One last thing that's been bugging me, Juggernauts and Mercenaries provide the armor debuff, which reduces a targets armor by 20%. Some people have suggested that these effects stack, which would be amazing if true. The first question that comes to mind, though, is can a 15% damage increase for 15 seconds compare to a 20% armor debuff for nearly an entire fight? I would love to see some information about this, but I haven't yet seen anything.

Juggy DPS is very viable. Even as tank spec. Yes it is going to be less the mara but your trading DPS for serviablity. Mara wear med armor and do insane DPS I know I have a lvl 50 carnage. I also have a lvl 40 Juggy tank. I am finding lvling easier with the tank because I dont take near as much damage as with my mara but I was killing faster with my mara.


Both are fun but I wish I had rolled my Juggy first. I enjoy it more.