Guard Needs Fixing Now, or Why We Have So Many Burst Damage Whines

STAR WARS: The Old Republic
Guard Needs Fixing Now, or Why We Have So Many Burst Damage Whines

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yukirshiro

01.23.2012 , 05:06 PM \| #261	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by Lazorous You're basing Guard as though it will always be 100% on every healer, which it is not. /pounds head against the wall THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT. Why do you think the first page is full of both therads by healers saying healing is useless and threads by dps saying they can't kill healers? Guard. A guarded healer is awesome. An unguarded healer is awful. All of this is a direct consequence of balancing burst dps to try to reach a point where it is balanced both for guard and for no guard. But it can't be done. You end up with a messy middleground where solo healers are gimpish and guarded healers are too strong and no one is really happy.

Freewareplayer

01.23.2012 , 05:07 PM \| #262	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by Lazorous Oh, didn't know this game was suppose to be balanced based on Huttball. It makes perfect sense now. lol cause all i talked about was huttbal? Way to take **** out of context "m8". Great reading skills on picking up that is was an example to show how in other topics people claim how hard it is to kill a tank, and then here every acts like focussing tanks is Ezmode. gotta love people like you.... go cry about operetives being op somewhere

Varicite

01.23.2012 , 05:08 PM \| #263	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by yukirshiro 1. Because in a lot of situations guard isn't present. If BW really wants to come out and state "the game is only balanced if you have a guarded healer on your team, otherwise don't complain when you get blown up too fast" they can do that but I doubt it'd be good for their subscription numbers. 2. None of the whine threads were ever by guarded people. We had a months straight of 5 "nerf ops!" threads a day and I dare you to find a single one by a healer/tank guard duo. The nerfs were clearly prompted by whines which were prompted by being blown up solo in 3 seconds. 3. Breaking the guard doesn't mean burning through. It means CCing the healer or getting the tank outside 15 yards. The point is it requires more burst dps to do this than it would if guard didn't exist. Because when guard does exist as soon as guard goes back up your dps goes below the healer's ability to heal it again. You make a LOT of assumptions in this thread, none of which are based on solid evidence. It is not BW's fault that Guard is not always present, it should be just as prevalent as healing or dps in a PvP situation. Case in point: I have a dps sorc who has topped healing for the past day at around 75k healing. My side didn't have healers. Do I ask BW to balance the game around my side not having healers? No, it's not their fault that players chose not to heal. Your second point is simply speculation. I viewed it simply as BW holding to their previously-mentioned credo that they don't want people to be blown up in 3 seconds, and Op/Scoundrel burst was a little higher than they intended, regardless of Guard mechanics. And hey, that's exactly what they said was the reason for the nerf too. Breaking guard means killing the tank, in the easiest of situations. CC/Interrupt chains on the healer also work, as does forcing distance between the two. You're asking for a fix for something that isn't actually broken, in a game where there are plenty of other ACTUALLY broken things that could be fixed.
Quote: Originally Posted by JayPres Strap your digital dog to your digital roof and take your ideologies, lovely wife, and sweet little 8yr old girl to a PVE server where you fit best.

yukirshiro

01.23.2012 , 05:08 PM \| #264	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by Lazorous How is Rejuvenate I thought you were talking about the out of combat rest ability. If you're talking about a heal, one heal is much like another heal and all heals have an opportunity cost they are balanced around anyway. Totally different situation from a passive ability with no opportunity cost.

Hefutoxin

01.23.2012 , 05:10 PM \| #265	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by yukirshiro I thought you were talking about the out of combat rest ability. If you're talking about a heal, one heal is much like another heal and all heals have an opportunity cost they are balanced around anyway. Totally different situation from a passive ability with no opportunity cost. Aside from the 50% damage the tank is sucking down, you mean.

Lazorous

01.23.2012 , 05:11 PM \| #266	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by yukirshiro /pounds head against the wall THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT. Why do you think the first page is full of both therads by healers saying healing is useless and threads by dps saying they can't kill healers? Guard. A guarded healer is awesome. An unguarded healer is awful. All of this is a direct consequence of balancing burst dps to try to reach a point where it is balanced both for guard and for no guard. But it can't be done. You end up with a messy middleground where solo healers are gimpish and guarded healers are too strong and no one is really happy. Basing a nerf on something you presume will occur 100% of the time, whereas it does not, is not a strong argument. I don't take any nerf or whine post seriously without understanding how they engaged the fight. Just taking those whine posts and assuming a case that will happen 100% of the time is premature. I've seen very well played healers without guard. Guard does not make or break them. Inexperienced players will whine at just about anything that doesn't go their way. And to think you actually want people to take you seriously.

yukirshiro

01.23.2012 , 05:12 PM \| #267	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by Varicite You make a LOT of assumptions in this thread, none of which are based on solid evidence. It is not BW's fault that Guard is not always present, it should be just as prevalent as healing or dps in a PvP situation. Still missing the point. You can balance for heals and not for heals. BW undoubtedly does. You do so by balancing the opportunity cost of heals and dps. If heals were passive you would have a good analogy but they arn't. If guard was an active ability you could balance the opportunity cost in a similar way. But it isn't. If you balance dps and heals against one another and then inject guard into the mix the balance goes out the window. You either end up with a game that sucks if you don't have guard or a game that sucks if you do have guard.

Kelticfury

01.23.2012 , 05:14 PM \| #268	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by TheWillDudley guard balancing is fine. If your annoyed that you cant kill the guy your attacking cause hes guarded just means the spell is doing its effect. And you should target the guy doing the guarding instead.

Lazorous

01.23.2012 , 05:15 PM \| #269	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by Freewareplayer cause all i talked about was huttbal? Way to take **** out of context "m8". Great reading skills on picking up that is was an example to show how in other topics people claim how hard it is to kill a tank, and then here every acts like focussing tanks is Ezmode. gotta love people like you.... go cry about operetives being op somewhere Gotta love people like you who like to present very specific scenarios and assume they will always be 100% of the case, and not know how to play them to your advantage. In otherwords, a Nerf post because you need to L2P. Your post was very vague, and said 999 posts relating to huttball. You didn't exactly go into detail about other warzones, but just gave very specific examples that catered to your rant, but ignores other scenarios. A bad team is a bad team. And if you read your post, you're the one crying about something being OP. I never claimed such a thing for any class. Try again.

yukirshiro

01.23.2012 , 05:15 PM \| #270	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by Hefutoxin Aside from the 50% damage the tank is sucking down, you mean. That's not an opportunity cost. It doesn't come at the cost of doing something else. If your GCD got reset every time you guarded or if guard was active and disabled your ability to do anything else while active that would be an opportunity cost. There is a small opportunity cost in that you have to be in defensive stance to use it. But because this game is really easy and doesn't stance-code anything it isn't that much of a cost. You can still do all the rest of your job as a tank, although obviously you won't be blowing people up quite as fast.

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