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Dungeon Finder System Eventually


Ohnoto's Avatar


Ohnoto
12.13.2011 , 05:51 AM | #1
Quote: Originally Posted by vadmacska View Post
Before the cross-server LFG system I tended to know a lot of people on my server because I grouped with people on my server. When the cross-server LFG tool hit I got surrounded by strangers with whom I was never able to meet again even if I wanted to since there wasn't a way to /friend them even if they were nice.
I completely agree. To expand upon this, not having it cross realm created the sense of a server community. Each server had something different and unique. People that grouped up, if someone did ninja an item, it eventually got around and had its consequences, in that people would know who the good and nice players were, and knew who not to group up with.

EDIT: This is not the original posting, that is the next thread below. This thread was placed as the first posting due to a time stamp bug in the forums at the time of replying to a posting.
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Ohnoto's Avatar


Ohnoto
12.13.2011 , 08:08 AM | #2
IGN: Moving forward might there be something like a group finder or something like that? An auto-finder implemented into the game?

James Ohlen: Some people ask for a dungeon finder system but the thing about those systems is they're really for more of a mature online game. If you put a system in early on it really takes away from the exploration of the level up game. If you have people all just basically waiting around their dungeon finder and all being grouped up together, they're going to actually take the time to explore all the worlds that are available in the Old Republic galaxy. So it's definitely a feature that we want to put in, we just want to put it in at the right time. However, the looking for group feature is something that we continue to work on, we want to make that more robust and more powerful.


http://pc.ign.com/articles/121/1214438p1.html


Dear Mr. Ohlen,

I recently read this interview and was quite concerned about this section of it. I completely realize and understand that in today's MMO market, most every game is doing their form of a Dungeon Finder feature with auto-grouping to assist with getting groups quickly. While in your interview, you said the right time, I hope that it is also done the right way.

Prior to the forum wipe I saw more threads from other players strongly requesting to not have a cross realm grouping feature. While in your interview you did not state anything about cross realm, I strongly, strongly suggest that if implemented the grouping system does not include cross realm grouping.

I also suggest that the grouping does not automatically send you to the instance. As all the entrances are already based at fleet stations together, players can get back to them quickly through the travel to fleet ability (18 hour CD, I know.), shuttles while leveling, or binds back to ship docking bays.

I've personally played games longer without this feature than with it, and feel that with this feature it has ruined the immersion of the game. By doing this it has eliminated the need for exploration, as you stated also. It doesn't matter at what point a dungeon finder system is implemented, if done like this, it will ruin exploration.

In other games it has also reduced the full size of a game from the full world(s) down to the size of the major city players dwell in. Players feel that there is no reason to leave these cities because they can just queue up for the dungeon finder and wait for it to send them to their dungeon.

I am by no means opposed to having this type of system and would be all for it if it would create the group from players only on the same server and not automatically teleport them to the fleet station. I just would like to see this system done properly as many have requested and not be rushed in or done improperly (i.e. Surnames).

Thank you and good luck,
-- Ohnoto

__________________________________________________

Quote: Originally Posted by Ohnoto
I thank everyone that has voiced their opinion about this topic, one way or another in this thread.

Posting this, I knew that there are many who feel strongly one way or another. I have read through all of the replies here, through all of the debating between each other. This is ultimately, a healthy process, of debating and making points for both sides.

Something that I did not convey in my original posting was regarding the server community, and the friends made. The current "first" posting was put there through a bug in the forums that messed with the time stamp.

The argument brought up about creating friends, getting to know each other better is probably the strongest argument that can be made to not have a cross realm dungeon finder. Like others, I made friends while leveling by chatting in open channels. Many of those people joined my guild, and some of them I still chat with today. I can not tell you who anyone is that I met through a Looking for Dungeon feature. I can't tell you their character name, I can't tell you who they are.

As I stated in my original posting, I am all for this feature being within the same server and not cross server. However, once you do internal server, it is one step closer to that urge of doing cross server. It is a slippery slope here.

As several here, I began my MMO gaming in WoW before Burning Crusade. I have since played most major other MMOs, including F2P ones, even if just a 10 day trial. Prior to dungeon finder, general chat in zones was active, people would chat about doing group quests and dungeons. Much like the current zones in Star Wars. People are socializing!

After the cross realm dungeon finder was released in WoW, chat became non-existent. The mentality was to queue up while questing, do the dungeon, get your gear and get out. Absolutely no socializing occurs.

Don't believe this? Load up a trail of WoW, go to The Barrens, which once even had t-shirts devoted to what was known as "Barrens Chat", go to Westfall, go to Silverpine. All of these zones have dungeons for people to do. Just sit and watch the chat that occurs, sit and watch how people ask for doing dungeon groups. Sit and wait.

*crickets*

Absolutely no socializing in a Massively Multi-Player Online game.

After reading all these postings, I would propose to Bioware, to make the many happy, give us an option. Give players a choice. Let us decide when we queue up to look for others on our realm, or an option to look cross realm. Don't give us rewards for either, just let us decide where to draw our player pool from.
Dungeon Finder System Eventually - Page 7

__________________________________________________

If you are standing at the entrance attempting to recruit for a Flashpoint, you are doing it wrong. You should not be recruiting for Flashpoints from The Fleet. You may get a few, but you are advertising to a group consisting of players from 10-50. Instead you should go to the planet containing the Flashpoint's level range where you are advertising to the players that are in the same range to do the Flashpoint.

Quote:
If there are 50 people at The Fleet, ranging from 10-50 it is not as much of a select group. If you go the planet of the level range and there are 50 people, there are more that would come because you are advertising to a more select group in that range. The problem with getting groups together is that people are just standing in The Fleet attempting to recruit and not venturing outside of that.

This is why there is a spot on every planet to shuttle people back to The Fleet quickly, and the Emergency Fleet Pass ability, pending it is not on cooldown.
Dungeon Finder System Eventually - Page 17
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DarthNoruk's Avatar


DarthNoruk
12.13.2011 , 09:16 AM | #3
Sorry but I think the developer hit it right on the head. It wouldn't be right to put that into a game early on. However after the full content of the game has been explored, played, and witnessed I hate having to waste time traveling back to the same location every time I want to farm gear from a dungeon(flashpoint). Could you imagine the level of annoyance in WoW if you had to travel to Outworld every time you had wanted to do dungeons? I am personally happy they plan to implement in this way.

Ohnoto's Avatar


Ohnoto
12.13.2011 , 09:30 AM | #4
As you mentioned WoW, I will compare to that. I don't like to compare this game to that, but I will. I played WoW during the "Classic" version before any expansions. The LFG tool that was implemented in WoW was introduced late in Wrath of the Lich King. So, I know very well what your example is like. I also know what it was like going back through the portals to get to instances in Azeroth from Outlands.

It seems that, thanks to other games, many just want to log in, press one button and be given everything. Whether that is loot, instant queue and teleportation to instances, and it ruins from the immersion of the game. I am in no way refering that you want that, but there are many throughout the gaming community that do want that, and many of them appear to be newer and younger gamers. Though that is how this generation has become, unfortunately.

However, new people will always be joining the game. Even now in WoW, while they are losing subscriptions, they are also gaining new players. These new players don't know anything different. They don't know what the game was before the WoW LFG system. They don't have to explore, they just have to queue and enter. Many of them wouldn't be able to tell you where the dungeon entrances are even at.

James Ohlen was exactly right in stating that it takes away from exploration and it does, but at what point to do you say exploration is not needed? At what point do you tell a new player, "You don't need to explore the game, hit this button and be taken there."

This may not be as big of an issue considering you enter all the flashpoints from The Fleet, but it ruined exploration in other games. I am a huge explorer in games and don't want that ruined here. I also enjoy seeing active worlds and not just seeing everyone in the major city.
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Zezv's Avatar


Zezv
12.13.2011 , 09:48 AM | #5
I think you are all crazy and trying to make something into nothing. Takes from the game... This game like all things in life will be what YOU make of it. Not ruined or great because of some dungeon finder. If I had a dungeon finder would it take from exploration. Hell no I would explore while I waited for the que. Should the dungeon finder be cross server? YES that was a stupid question if you ask me. More people = faster ques = more people wanting to play over the couple of antagonists that say otherwise. Its funny to me to watch people try and turn ridiculous points of personal preference into fact. In case non of you who are apposed to the easier dungeon systems have noticed. Its an MMO that means bigger than you and your little brood. If you dont like games where you cant always be the big fish maybe you should stop playing MMO's



The line between life and death are at best shadowy and vague, Who is to say where one ends and the other begins.

Zezv

Vlado's Avatar


Vlado
12.13.2011 , 10:11 AM | #6
I agree with the developer,dungeon finder for later.I agree with no cross-realm grping.But for now what i strongly suggest its a LFG channel that broadcast to all planets and not only in Republic Fleet.Or a player created LFG channel, dont matter,what it really matter its that the channel broadcast globally.

Liathan's Avatar


Liathan
12.13.2011 , 10:23 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Ohnoto View Post
As you mentioned WoW, I will compare to that. I don't like to compare this game to that, but I will. I played WoW during the "Classic" version before any expansions. The LFG tool that was implemented in WoW was introduced late in Wrath of the Lich King. So, I know very well what your example is like. I also know what it was like going back through the portals to get to instances in Azeroth from Outlands.

It seems that, thanks to other games, many just want to log in, press one button and be given everything. Whether that is loot, instant queue and teleportation to instances, and it ruins from the immersion of the game. I am in no way refering that you want that, but there are many throughout the gaming community that do want that, and many of them appear to be newer and younger gamers. Though that is how this generation has become, unfortunately.

However, new people will always be joining the game. Even now in WoW, while they are losing subscriptions, they are also gaining new players. These new players don't know anything different. They don't know what the game was before the WoW LFG system. They don't have to explore, they just have to queue and enter. Many of them wouldn't be able to tell you where the dungeon entrances are even at.

James Ohlen was exactly right in stating that it takes away from exploration and it does, but at what point to do you say exploration is not needed? At what point do you tell a new player, "You don't need to explore the game, hit this button and be taken there."

This may not be as big of an issue considering you enter all the flashpoints from The Fleet, but it ruined exploration in other games. I am a huge explorer in games and don't want that ruined here. I also enjoy seeing active worlds and not just seeing everyone in the major city.
Actually blizz implemented a LFG tool in TBC but no one wanted to use it, even after they got rid of the LFG channel. Wrath brought about match making, porting, and cross server functionality. I disagree with the idea that a LFG tool, even with matchmaking takes away from exploration and gets people to just sit in a city. What gets people to sit in a city is the combination of teleporting, boring zones, better rewards from matchmaking, and it's more efficient. Take out teleporting and people can no longer sit in the cities. Don't offer a reward other then completing the instance and don't make it more efficient then world leveling, and people have even less of an incentive to be queue monkeys. And if you want me to explore the world, then don't stick all the instances on the fleet, that's kind of counterintuitive...

vadmacska's Avatar


vadmacska
12.13.2011 , 10:24 AM | #8
I would support an LFG tool as long as it is server only. My experience was that a cross-server dungeon finder made people care less since there wasn't a consequence if someone wasn't nice in a party. When people played only with people on the same server the word 'reputation' had a meaning. With a cross-server LFG tool it's just "who cares if I leave/ninja I'll never gonna meet those people again anyway".

Before the cross-server LFG system I tended to know a lot of people on my server because I grouped with people on my server. When the cross-server LFG tool hit I got surrounded by strangers with whom I was never able to meet again even if I wanted to since there wasn't a way to /friend them even if they were nice.

Not using the LFG tool was not really an option since most people used it around me. We mostly sticked to guild runs with my guildies as PuGging was most of the time horrible via the Dungeon Finder.

I do not wish to argue over this, these are just my two cents.

Danash's Avatar


Danash
12.13.2011 , 10:44 AM | #9
I personally would hate a dungeon finder, for the simple reason that it would end up like in WOW idling in Stormwind/Orgimmar until your queue pops. I used to love skirmishes at raid instance portals, which are relatively non existant with the rise of dungeon finder tools.
"That's no moon. It's a space station." -Obi Wan Kenobi

Omniana's Avatar


Omniana
12.13.2011 , 11:02 AM | #10
I'm okay with a LFD tool.


I'm not okay with cross-server queueing.
It's not enough that I should succeed - others should fail.

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