Guard Needs Fixing Now, or Why We Have So Many Burst Damage Whines

STAR WARS: The Old Republic
Guard Needs Fixing Now, or Why We Have So Many Burst Damage Whines

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yukirshiro

01.23.2012 , 12:33 PM \| #41	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by Hefutoxin People who played Warhammer have already dealt with this and moved on. WAR is extremely different because tanks don't have charges and healers don't have friendly pulls. There is also far more emphasis on large scale RVR and AOE attacks in WAR which makes guard much less important.

yukirshiro

01.23.2012 , 12:34 PM \| #42	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by CyRenMBHMCM Cut out all the smoke and mirrors and you get what this really is, another PUG vs premade rant. /thread. /facepalm It's like you don't even see the irony of that statement in the context of the post. Again, this isn't about guard being overpowered. It's about how balance should work. If your argument is that we shouldn't balance to guard that's an argument to make. But the result of that is going to be massive rants about premades being unkillable. And you are kidding yourself if you think BW won't eventually do something about it, just like they nerfed OPs based on massive whines. BTW right now BW obviously IS balancing to guard, at least partially. Or at least that was the default at release. Ops and merc tracer spam is obviously balanced with guard in mind.

Sanwa

01.23.2012 , 12:35 PM \| #43	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by yukirshiro Whatever BW is smoking apparently, since the OP nerfs were 100% motivated by un-guarded noobs getting blown up solo. If BW wants to only balance to guard they can do that but the result is massive whines about burst damage. If BW wants to only balance not to guard they can do that but the result is no one ever dies in a good group. My alt is a jugg. The 15 yard leash is not an issue except maybe on huttball. Another option would be to lower the leash to 5 yards but that really nerfs melee tanks compared to ranged tanks. I pvp alot 54 valor but I also do pve the 15 meter range really isnt that far and its so easy to counter I get pushed back all the time and my poor squishy that i had guard up on dies. Also it only reduces damage 5% and transfers 50% I die alot just because I have guard on. On the PVE side of the house it needs to be at 15 meters keeps healer out of AOE and also are you going to have your healer stand right next to the main tank no.
Sailor Jerry Lv 50 Jugg (Dark Forces) Krath

AusetMuta

01.23.2012 , 12:36 PM \| #44	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by Hefutoxin Ever think that maybe you are missing the point? Guard is already balanced around. There is already was of getting around a guarded target. Bioware doesn't need to balance damage based on whether or not a guard is present. The counter for Guard is Knockback/Pull. People who played Warhammer have already dealt with this and moved on. ^this^ Situational awareness and tactics negate just about anything you perceive as guard imbalance.

yukirshiro

01.23.2012 , 12:41 PM \| #45	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by AusetMuta ^this^ Situational awareness and tactics negate just about anything you perceive as guard imbalance. But they really don't. Because the same classes who have guards and heals also have charges and friendly pulls and massive CC of their own. If BW were to balance to guard not being up no coordinated groups would ever die. Right now BW is doing a messy middle-course where they try to split the difference between balancing to guard and not balancing to guard and it isn't working particularly well at either.

VertisReaper

01.23.2012 , 12:41 PM \| #46	Quote
I want to agree with the OP but the more I think about it the more I realize how easy this is able to be countered. There are so many displacement abilities in this game that render guard ineffectual, in fact almost every class has one -pull, knockback, push, etc. Guard is also neutralized simply by CCing the healer, focus interrupts and bursting down the tank in a stun. Real basic 1500 rating arena tactics here that any competent premade utilizes against another.

Jontar

01.23.2012 , 12:43 PM \| #47	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by Aghar I play a tank, I use guard all the time, even when I que solo. And its not even 50% mitigation, its 50% damage transfer, hell I have been killed just because the person I was guarding got the hell beat out of them. Any "burst" complaining about guard doe not know what the hell they are even talking about. You want to kill a guarded target, cc the guarded individual and burn the crap out of the tank, then move to the guarded target. most sensible post of the day. -=] thank you for restoring sanity to this complain fest.

Axethales

01.23.2012 , 12:47 PM \| #48	Quote
Wow... So the one freaking thing a tank can do in a WZ you think is OP?? How about you give my guardian spec tank the ability to do 400k damage in a single warzone like a BH and you can have my guard? Then we will call it even. Seriously - we do piss pathetic DPS and the one thing we can do is protect our healers well, oh and jump in huttball and you whine it's OP. sigh... go back to WoW and ruin that games PvP some more.
Level 50 Jedi Knight Guardian - Helm of Graush Now playing <50 Scoundrel 100% PvP leveling and loving it. UO, DAOC, EQ, SWG, WoW, WAR, and others...

CyRenMBHMCM

01.23.2012 , 12:49 PM \| #49	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by yukirshiro /facepalm It's like you don't even see the irony of that statement in the context of the post. Again, this isn't about guard being overpowered. It's about how balance should work. If your argument is that we shouldn't balance to guard that's an argument to make. But the result of that is going to be massive rants about premades being unkillable. And you are kidding yourself if you think BW won't eventually do something about it, just like they nerfed OPs based on massive whines. BTW right now BW obviously IS balancing to guard, at least partially. Or at least that was the default at release. Ops and merc tracer spam is obviously balanced with guard in mind. The irony is that you neglected to quote the first half of my post that completely negates this entire thread. Odd. You lack organisation, until you get some you'll cry on the forums. Good luck with that, I'm off to the chippy.
Mal Dagoth - Chimaera / Tomb of Freedon Nadd Cy'Ren - Chimaera / Tomb of Freedon Nadd Mystifi - Chimaera / Tomb of Freedon Nadd ReDevils [rDe]

yukirshiro

01.23.2012 , 12:52 PM \| #50	Quote
The "just counter it" argument doesn't really stand up to logical scrutiny. Tanks have knockbacks and pulls and charges too. If you line up abilities and then throw in resolve the tank/healer combo always comes out ahead in terms of ability to stay together. It all comes back to what you balance to. In order to balance to "just counter it" burst damage needs to be high enough that you can burst a tank down in about 6 seconds with equal numbers. Meaning a solo TTK on a tank of about 12 seconds. But that burst is balanced to guard and healers. It would be too high for the rest of the game.

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