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Why Endgame is lackluster, and what Bioware should do.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions
Why Endgame is lackluster, and what Bioware should do.

FuzzyMuffins's Avatar


FuzzyMuffins
01.23.2012 , 04:08 AM | #11
Might sound crazy but One mode for everyone, and hard encounters would make this game way better. Like in rift, it didnt have much going for it but if you raided you got a good run. Hammerknell took around a month for the top guild to clear and even the first two raids were difficult to do without the right gear/tactics. I remember going into Hammerknell and the newer raiders still having a little trouble on the easier raids 6months down the road.

I have yet to raid, but SWTOR is a themepark and from what i heard over mummble and seen. When the ride ends it really does end. New raid took 1 day to clear? lol Great for the more casual crowd for sure.

Ascendant's Avatar


Ascendant
01.23.2012 , 04:21 AM | #12
Our guild still has a couple nightmare kills left to get in our 8-man mode and many of our members are already getting bored, including the other half of our 16-man who are still gearing up for Hard and Nightmare gear checks.

The content is simply too easy. We've never had to try very hard to get a boss down. At least not by most peoples standards. The only reason we haven't full cleared everything is because we only do progression 2 nights a week. Coming from games where I spent weeks, or even months to get a new raid on farm, this is pretty disappointing.
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WimploMartin's Avatar


WimploMartin
01.23.2012 , 05:05 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Ascendant View Post
Our guild still has a couple nightmare kills left to get in our 8-man mode and many of our members are already getting bored, including the other half of our 16-man who are still gearing up for Hard and Nightmare gear checks.

The content is simply too easy. We've never had to try very hard to get a boss down. At least not by most peoples standards. The only reason we haven't full cleared everything is because we only do progression 2 nights a week. Coming from games where I spent weeks, or even months to get a new raid on farm, this is pretty disappointing.
i understand thats how i fill right now i dont even wanna play no more.. my 8man guild has alrdy cleared basicly all nightmare content + gear wise there is no point to do nightmare besides knowing u did it in nightmare hard mode is just as good for gear... this game with the countless bugs is geting worse and worse... bioware cant simply say they messed up. there raids are horrible and yes WAY to easy first day 1.1 came out and nightmare mode is cleared..... come on thats just dumb it should take like 1-2 months atleast not 1 night... im not happy bout the gear just cause its all the same crap rakata nightmare mode should have like SUPER rakata gear or something

JamieM's Avatar


JamieM
01.23.2012 , 06:03 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Hanscholo View Post
I detest modes. Raids should be difficult, but not extremely hard.

One mode, for everyone.
I agree - it would simplify everything whilst at the same time giving the entire server a universal touchstone to measure progression.

Have one or two entry level raids set at 8 man (with lower level reward epics) to get people used to larger group sizes, and then upper tiers kick off at 16 man raids with progressively harder group mechanics in each tiered encounter.

Basically how WoW was pre WotLK.

Karazhan > Gruul > Magtheridon's Lair > SSC > TK > MH > BT > SW was the best progression flow of any MMO I have played and the difficulty tuning was spot on.

Schwick's Avatar


Schwick
01.23.2012 , 06:06 AM | #15
While we are still doing normal stuff because of gearing issues of some members, we already tried and almost did the first EV boss on hard. I have to agree it's too easy because it's a copy-paste of normal mode with more HP/damage.

I like the usage of additional mechanics to make an encounter harder.

That said, it did take Blizzard a while to make good raiding instances, I'm sure Bioware will realise the same and make more challenging instances.
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The_Pro's Avatar


The_Pro
01.23.2012 , 09:45 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by JamieM View Post
I agree - it would simplify everything whilst at the same time giving the entire server a universal touchstone to measure progression.

Have one or two entry level raids set at 8 man (with lower level reward epics) to get people used to larger group sizes, and then upper tiers kick off at 16 man raids with progressively harder group mechanics in each tiered encounter.

Basically how WoW was pre WotLK.

Karazhan > Gruul > Magtheridon's Lair > SSC > TK > MH > BT > SW was the best progression flow of any MMO I have played and the difficulty tuning was spot on.
I like multi-tier raiding. It has its problems though. Since whatever is the highest tier at the time will be very hard, even with proper gear, basically the content has to be nerfed when the next tier gets released to maintain the difficulty "latter", which makes proper balancing pretty difficult. You also have to consider that players trying to get into raiding a little late have to go through multiple raids, instead of just getting boosted to the normal mode of the current raid.
Casual players also complain about not being able to fight the last boss of the game, before the expansion, ie. Kil'Jaeden or Kel Thuzad.

There are pros with the system too though. Everyone gets to witness all of the content, early stuff included, even if they start raiding a few months late. I think the system gives motivation to casuals as well. They see someone in Fleet with a lightsaber drop from Darth Maul (just an example), and there is a sense of wonder, because they don't even dream of ever getting that far, instead of "Lol no big deal, I just pugged him on NM".

Like I said, I like the system, but I doubt Bioware will implement it. I think there's a more realistic chance of my suggestions getting implemented.

The_Pro's Avatar


The_Pro
01.23.2012 , 09:49 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by flowqz View Post
i dont want rakata gear droping in normals, cause i dont wanna farm normals if i can clear nightmare.

considering your "rakata gear already has the highest mods"... those enhancements are crap cause they all just have accuracy + x in it. thats why u have to get random drops in nightmare mode to get another enhancement and to get rid of this stat.
1) One or two Rakata pieces shouldn't gear someone up for NMM alone, especially with the NMM buffs that I'm recommending.

2) Yeah that is exactly my point. I'm an assassin tank. I have a couple Rakata pieces, and I'm forced to swap the augments out for the Columi ones with shield instead of accuracy. There needs to be more choice and customization. In my post, I meant that there should be more top-tier mods so this issue goes away.

BubblegumYeti's Avatar


BubblegumYeti
01.23.2012 , 09:54 AM | #18
TBH the "hardcore" raiders are a small precentage of an MMO population. I am not sure if Bioware cares about investing time in this since there are more important things for casuals and less hardcore players to add/fix.

I think ridiculous hard "raids" are an MMO idea of the 90s. Nobody seems to be doing it anymore. You might have to look for other games

Yummymango's Avatar


Yummymango
01.23.2012 , 10:21 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by BubblegumYeti View Post
TBH the "hardcore" raiders are a small precentage of an MMO population. I am not sure if Bioware cares about investing time in this since there are more important things for casuals and less hardcore players to add/fix.

I think ridiculous hard "raids" are an MMO idea of the 90s. Nobody seems to be doing it anymore. You might have to look for other games
The casual, leveling game is just fine right now whereas the endgame is crappy.

I am also getting bored and going to give this game another 1 month may be before I unsubscribe. Not only the content is boring and easy (we are doing NMMs) lots of things are also buggy. Cant deal with this stuff for long time.

Lyynk's Avatar


Lyynk
01.23.2012 , 11:11 AM | #20
I agree with a lot of points in your post. Good read.

To answer an issue you had with gear customization, a Bioware rep recently talked about their future plans for gear customization. You can read the dev post about that here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showt...52#edit1398252

Also, I want to add a couple comments regarding raid difficulty. My guild just finished clearing Hardmode EV and KP last night. We are a weekend raiding guild (raid 2 nights a week), so we are a little behind but that's okay. We haven't really had much trouble on Hardmode anything, and actually killed most everything with very little wiping.

Now, the reason I say all this is because there were clearly some "omg fail" moments during our hardmode boss encounters last night, and we were still able to down the bosses. I'm not saying that I think absolute perfect execution should be needed to down bosses in hardmode, because that's what nightmare mode is for. But seriously, some of the stuff we messed up on the boss fights should have caused us to wipe and it didn't. I'm a little disappointed in the challenge thus far.

Next weekend we are going to attempt Nightmare modes, so maybe there will be more of a challenge there... I'm hoping for it.