Let's compare early WoW with early TOR

Ok. I can't help it. I've got time to burn.

I want to state for the record, I was not a WoW player during the times discussed below- Vanilla WoW. I starting playing WoW sometime after the release of tBC. I stopped shortly after Cataclysm.

According to wikipedia,
According to wikipedia,

According to WoWwiki, the first patch AFTER the official release date was patch 1.1.2 release on December 6 2004.
Which only removed time zone tabs. (Big fat hairy deal). I'm going to skip this one.
The next one however was significant. 18 December 2004
http://www.wowwiki.com/Patch_1.2.0

According to my math that is 26 days between release and first major post release date patch. It looks to me like there were a bunch of patches before the official release date. I'm assuming that these were patches found between the time the release to manufacture RTM and the release date. Maybe someone that remembers could fill us in

Look at the huge list of bug fixes.


Now lets look at SWTOR

According to http://www.wikiswtor.com/Patch_1.0.1

The first major patch was Patch 1.0.1 released on 27 December 2011

According to my math that is 15 days between release and first major post release patch.
Admittedly that does not include some of the small post release patches.

see tbh i wish people would just accept they are different games.

wow has given up on story. its popular is Asia because its a grindfest (duh). get to max level asap and "push your lever for more food". don't even read quest "no one reads quests, right ?" just look at the target in the quest target and kill it asap and get to end game and start your next grind.

they may be superficially similar but imo its the complete antithesis of the design philosophy behind swtor (and the antithesis of what initially drew me to wow)

wow wants its attempt at e-sports to be taken "srsy" (even tho their Executive Vice President of Game Design says it was their biggest ever mistake) because it fits the mercenary mentality they've instilled in the player population.

swtor wants...well im pretty sure it wants every piece of content added to have a coherent narrative weather that's guild capital ships, guild vs guild pvp, plant wide war zones or pod racing...

one places challenge = fun and the other places entertainment = fun.

the problem is that one group is so indoctrinated that they can barely understand that there's another way to do things people enjoy or that one size does not fit all and the market is big enough for both....and just possibly that's why wow has lost twice as many players as it ever had.

two very different games with two very different intended audiences.

i know where i come down. i just wanna fly a speeder between the legs of an AT-AT or somesuch and see where the story takes my character. i don't really care who wins whatever that is. hell i rolled a smuggler just to have a melee wookie tank and a millennium falcon knock off...and i can do so safe in the knowledge no one is ever gonna stand up at Bio-con and say "sorry guys we just don't know how to make the (gay) Republic cool"...


as for your post about patches...so which is it ? Bioware fixes less bugs or Blizzard made a buggier game

i kid. back then wow was much more simplistic than it is now...y'know before they nicked every viable idea that they could from up and coming mmos so they didn't look out of touch before those games even came out...quest tracker from lotro, out in world pvp and dungeon queueing from WAR, "phasing" from GW and half a dozen others, arenas to combat the threat from AOCs pvp, their laughable supposed re-emphasis on story and questline narrative in Cata in light of swtor...

Oh god no. Inc 50 pages -.-

You can't because they were both released in different markets with different expectations.

If you want to say that generally all MMO's that come out have problems, then fine. But don't try to justify Biowares failures by pointing out how other MMO's made mistakes at their launch, too

I played WoW on release, and although it did have some bugs it didn't have nearly as many problems as SWTOR does. SWTOR problems include everything from light rays shooting through the world, becoming invincible in combat by dancing, glitching mana to have infinite healing, duping items in your mail box, all combat actions delayed by half a second, having high-res textures vanish, etc.

There is a difference between having some bugs and having a BROKEN, UNFINISHED GAME.

A lot of WoW 1.2.0 looks to be gameplay tweaks and balance changes. In terms of bugs fixed, the two seem pretty even.

Seems weird, as WoW's patch notes puts bug fixes in their own category while SWTOR's notes list them by category.

Let's not.

Here's the difference:
Blizzard prioritized functional mechanics first, before content updates and expansion.

did you get the drama you was obviously after?

It's easy to forget what is present, and instead see what's lacking.

Post-TBC crowds have this preconception of what MMOs should be, rather than what CAN be. I played vanilla WoW, and ONLY vanilla WoW, and lemme tell you, it was very mediocre. But, with the entire MMO community being one niche instead of it's current "niche'd" state, MMO elitists and ultimatum-givers couldnt/didnt exist.

SWTOR is crawling, and will soon walk, then run, then sprint, etc etc etc. JUST as WoW did. I trust Bioware to do what's right.