DONT screw up the other parts of the game for pvp.

very well put. thats exactly it.

i know that mentality VERY well, since i have participated in starcraft communities back in 1998-1999, and later run a local (national) starcraft community for many years - close to a decade.

and what i can say is, the people were always in a state of constant 'fighting'. even if they were friends.

lotro is famous for its positive community indeed. with no need for enforcement from the side of moderators.


i have never ever seen us pvpers to be majority in any mixed circumstance. in games like eve, we are the entirety of the population. but wherever there are mixed games, we are minority.

this seems to follow broader social dynamics that are active in real life actually. like how a few percent of a team's supporters never miss the matches, or how a percentage of that lot happen to be hooligans. it dwindles and dwindles.


yes indeed ! i had had forgotten that. good that you reminded.

at the end of wrath all classes were akin to each other. more balanced, but less flavored.


no you arent immune. for, what you tell about caring about winning/losing, is a more evident problem that is on the surface more than what lies below it.

the main problem with pvp causing aggressiveness is the fact that pvp itself is a situation in which you fight against some sentient opponent for besting him/her. it roughly mimics the situations of survival. that is why stress is created and muscles become tense and the person becomes more alert and irritable, regardless of he wins or loses. its an automatic reaction. continual exposure to that, and the person remains alert for the entirety of playtime, and keeps that attitude. stress too. and you end up irritable.

winning/losing situation, if you care about it, exacerbates this underlying mechanic. granted, those who are at the level of caring about winning/losing are generally much more irritable and aggressive than those who do not
though.

Im no fan of todays "standards" myself. I was doing this long before 5 years ago and i agree with you.

You'd also be hard pressed to find any forum in any MMO that wasn't a cesspool.

My point was, even 4 years ago, the thought was the amount of people who PvP in MMOs was a very very small minority. However, devs keep putting it in, and the PvP (cesspool) is usually a pretty popular forum. I personally don't think the amount of PvPers is as small as some think. Nothing more than that was meant.

I have a feeling this thread is directed at Operatives/Scoundrels.

They need the nerf they are getting - and I am sure they will do fine regardless of it. Just
like Deception sassins and their counterparts do fine.

Almost all the Operatives I know said they needed a nerf - not just the people getting
"owned" by them in PvP.

I'd love to debate this with anyone.

Most mobs were tuned based on how much damage they could do on the spreadsheet. When issues crop up that expose unintended consequences, it can be bad.

Similarly, every other character is balanced around an idea of what damage they should be producing. When it's out of sync for pvp, it's out of sync in pve [we just don't care as much since the mobs don't cry nerf :P].

That isn't to say that there won't be other unintended consequences or further need of adjustment, it's a MMO, things change. PVP just tends to require a thinner cloud of relative balance.

Simple fact is PVP focused MMOs never succeed, they just don't have enough players.

While its good to have some PVP because you can attract those people you can't build the game around it.

PVPers are a very very vocal minority, its always been like that.

WoW has had 7 years of PVE nerfs because of PVP and it gets sooooooo very old, sooo very old.

I don't recall saying we weren't

My response wasn't meant to be a lashing out at you. I understand what you're saying. I hate to say this, but I think that a portion of the people joining WZs are doing so out of boredom, followed by daily XP, followed by gearing for PvE. A solid PvP system should be enjoyable and desirable for it's inherent fun factor, not outside reasons. It should allow advancement outside normal channels (ie. player gear).

Shameless promotion of a thread I started before last patch.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=192426

Guess I missed the nerf.Then again I just pve except for a few tries at Wzs.They were fun.Still I go by a simple rule.If the critter dies I am doing good.If I die I am not.

I'll debate this. If a player never participated in PvP they would have no idea if they were overpowered or not. Is that why we need damage metres too?

I edited my post - the nerf is in the works. I should have said "getting" and not "got". Sorry for that.