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Rule of Two: How'd They Know?


BrandonSM's Avatar


BrandonSM
01.20.2012 , 10:48 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by psychogobstopper View Post
I consider Anakin Skywalker to have become Sidious's apprentice the very moment that Skywalker decided to execute Darth Tyrannus, rather than take him prisoner for the Jedi Order and the Republic.

Even if one doesn't share that perspective, Skywalker certainly became Sidious's apprentice upon being declared Darth Vader. Under the Rule of Two, being given the Darth title doesn't mean that you're not an apprentice - it means that you are accepted as a Sith. Sidious, after all, very clearly refers to Maul as being his apprentice.
Yeah. I agree as well, Skywalker was already basically best friends Palps and he crossed over the dark side quite a few times already.
Hapan: "This creature has information that could lead us to a woman who has been kidnapped. We will get that information."
Luke: "This woman is a citizen of the New Republic, and if you do not take your hands off her, I will take your hands off you."

LrdStryfe's Avatar


LrdStryfe
01.21.2012 , 01:57 AM | #12
Going back to the original question, I believe the Jedi were tipped off about the Sith around 220 BBY. That's when, reportedly, the Jedi felt a tremor in the force which led to a lot of speculation about the resurgence of the Sith.
Hey man, this is just my opinion - it's just advice. So calm down, it's only a game after all. You can do whatever the **** you wanna do!

Socratic_Scribe's Avatar


Socratic_Scribe
01.21.2012 , 02:12 AM | #13
Ok this might not be much of a contribution but since you guys seem to know a lot of stuff about stuff I figure this is a chance to clear something up. Was the practice of only having two sith lords at a time always the way sith were supposed to have done things (thus making all the sith lords in SWTOR contradict this) or, as some of you have seemed to indicate, was this a change that the order implemented some time before the movies but after the period of this game? It always seemed like this game was ignoring the assertion that there are ALWAYS two, because Yoda didn't say that there have been two at a time for some period of time.
"Real men rock the pink lightsaber and they rock it hard"- He Who Is Many

Barraca's Avatar


Barraca
01.21.2012 , 02:46 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Socratic_Scribe View Post
Ok this might not be much of a contribution but since you guys seem to know a lot of stuff about stuff I figure this is a chance to clear something up. Was the practice of only having two sith lords at a time always the way sith were supposed to have done things (thus making all the sith lords in SWTOR contradict this) or, as some of you have seemed to indicate, was this a change that the order implemented some time before the movies but after the period of this game? It always seemed like this game was ignoring the assertion that there are ALWAYS two, because Yoda didn't say that there have been two at a time for some period of time.
The rule of two was instigated by Darth Bane after the new sith wars which i think is a fairly long time after the time TOR is set in. Bane put this rule in to stop the infighting that had previously destroyed the sith by having one master and one apprentice. Part of the rule was that the apprentice would destroy the master and thus become the master themselves.
Sidious broke the rule of two by training Maul and giving him the title of Darth before he had killed his master. Though tons of sith had tried to break the rule allready.
(sorry for the essay :P )
"Imay take orders from the sith but I serve the empire."

"Doesn't explain why im here bluey."

psychogobstopper's Avatar


psychogobstopper
01.21.2012 , 09:29 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Socratic_Scribe View Post
Was the practice of only having two sith lords at a time always the way sith were supposed to have done things (thus making all the sith lords in SWTOR contradict this)[?] [...] It always seemed like this game was ignoring the assertion that there are ALWAYS two, because Yoda didn't say that there have been two at a time for some period of time.
This game isn't ignoring that assertion, so much as it is adhering to previous continuity established within the Expanded Universe both prior to and after the release of the Prequel Trilogy.

To expand on what Barraca posted:

24,500 BBY: First Great Schism - the Jedi Order is split between adherents of the Light Side of the Force, and proponents of the Dark Side. The Legions of Lettow are ultimately defeated.

7003-6900 BBY: Hundred-Year Darkness (aka Second Great Schism) - the Jedi Order is again split by those who insist on following the light, and those who wish to follow the dark. After a hundred years of conflict, the Jedi and Republic are victorious, and the Dark Jedi are exiled. The Dark Jedi vanish into the Unknown Regions, discover and conquer Korriban, declare themselves the Dark Lords of the Sith, and start to establish a Sith Empire.

5000 BBY: Great Hyperspace War - due to the discovery of the Sith Empire by two hyperspace astronavigators, the Empire and the Republic go to war. The Empire is ultimately defeated, with the remnants of its main fleet chased back to Korriban, which the Republic fleet lays to waste. Other remnants of the Empire flee deeper into the Unknown Regions under the leadership of Lord Vitiate. Dark Lord Naga Sadow enters self-exile on Yavin IV.

4000-3996 BBY: Great Sith War - Jedi Knights Exar Kun and Ulic Qel-Droma fall to the dark side and learn the ways of the Sith. Kun is named Dark Lord of the Sith by the spirit of Dark Lord Marka Ragnos; Qel-Droma is named Kun's apprentice. The war ends with Kun's spirit imprisoned on Yavin IV, Qel-Droma redeemed to the light, and Kun's Empire destroyed.

3959-3956 BBY: Jedi Civil War - returning from the Mandalorian Wars, Jedi Knights Revan and Malak declare themselves Dark Lords of the Sith and found a new Sith Empire, with the Republic military forces and Jedi who followed them in battle forming the basis for this empire. The war ends after Revan has been redeemed to the light and kills his old apprentice.

3954-3951 BBY: First Jedi Purge - Darth Traya, Darth Sion, and Darth Nihilus form the Sith Triumvirate, and consolidate the remnants of Revan's Empire under their control. The Sith attempt to wipe out all Jedi, but are ultimately defeated by Jedi Exile Meetra Surik. Surik's followers go on re-establish the Jedi Order.

3681-3653 BBY: Great Galactic War - the true Sith Empire returns, under the leadership of an apparently immortal Emperor. The war ultimately ends with a forced peace agreement after the Empire's forces attack Coruscant and destroy the Jedi Temple. The Jedi Order withdraws from Coruscant and returns to their ancient homeworld of Tython.

3653-3641 BBY: Cold War - the uneasy period of "peace" between the resurgent Sith Empire and the Republic, marked by border skirmishes and proxy wars.

2000-1000 BBY: New Sith Wars - starts due to the Jedi Order's Fourth Great Schism, in which Jedi Knight Phanius falls to the dark side, declares himself Darth Ruin, and establishes a New Sith Empire. The Jedi Army of Light ultimately defeats the Brotherhood of Darkness in the Seventh Battle of Ruusan. One of the few surviving Sith is known as Darth Bane.

1000 BBY: Darth Bane establishes the Order of the Sith Lords under the aegis of a Rule of Two. Believing that infighting among the Brotherhood of Darkness was as responsible for the defeat of the New Sith Empire as the Jedi Army of Light and Republic were, Bane decides that the path forward for the Sith is for there to be only two at any one time - a master and an apprentice - and to work from the shadows, rather than take on the Jedi directly.

JeedaiFiresaber's Avatar


JeedaiFiresaber
01.21.2012 , 04:13 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by psychogobstopper View Post
This game isn't ignoring that assertion, so much as it is adhering to previous continuity established within the Expanded Universe both prior to and after the release of the Prequel Trilogy.

To expand on what Barraca posted:

24,500 BBY: First Great Schism - the Jedi Order is split between adherents of the Light Side of the Force, and proponents of the Dark Side. The Legions of Lettow are ultimately defeated.

7003-6900 BBY: Hundred-Year Darkness (aka Second Great Schism) - the Jedi Order is again split by those who insist on following the light, and those who wish to follow the dark. After a hundred years of conflict, the Jedi and Republic are victorious, and the Dark Jedi are exiled. The Dark Jedi vanish into the Unknown Regions, discover and conquer Korriban, declare themselves the Dark Lords of the Sith, and start to establish a Sith Empire.

5000 BBY: Great Hyperspace War - due to the discovery of the Sith Empire by two hyperspace astronavigators, the Empire and the Republic go to war. The Empire is ultimately defeated, with the remnants of its main fleet chased back to Korriban, which the Republic fleet lays to waste. Other remnants of the Empire flee deeper into the Unknown Regions under the leadership of Lord Vitiate. Dark Lord Naga Sadow enters self-exile on Yavin IV.

4000-3996 BBY: Great Sith War - Jedi Knights Exar Kun and Ulic Qel-Droma fall to the dark side and learn the ways of the Sith. Kun is named Dark Lord of the Sith by the spirit of Dark Lord Marka Ragnos; Qel-Droma is named Kun's apprentice. The war ends with Kun's spirit imprisoned on Yavin IV, Qel-Droma redeemed to the light, and Kun's Empire destroyed.

3959-3956 BBY: Jedi Civil War - returning from the Mandalorian Wars, Jedi Knights Revan and Malak declare themselves Dark Lords of the Sith and found a new Sith Empire, with the Republic military forces and Jedi who followed them in battle forming the basis for this empire. The war ends after Revan has been redeemed to the light and kills his old apprentice.

3954-3951 BBY: First Jedi Purge - Darth Traya, Darth Sion, and Darth Nihilus form the Sith Triumvirate, and consolidate the remnants of Revan's Empire under their control. The Sith attempt to wipe out all Jedi, but are ultimately defeated by Jedi Exile Meetra Surik. Surik's followers go on re-establish the Jedi Order.

3681-3653 BBY: Great Galactic War - the true Sith Empire returns, under the leadership of an apparently immortal Emperor. The war ultimately ends with a forced peace agreement after the Empire's forces attack Coruscant and destroy the Jedi Temple. The Jedi Order withdraws from Coruscant and returns to their ancient homeworld of Tython.

3653-3641 BBY: Cold War - the uneasy period of "peace" between the resurgent Sith Empire and the Republic, marked by border skirmishes and proxy wars.

2000-1000 BBY: New Sith Wars - starts due to the Jedi Order's Fourth Great Schism, in which Jedi Knight Phanius falls to the dark side, declares himself Darth Ruin, and establishes a New Sith Empire. The Jedi Army of Light ultimately defeats the Brotherhood of Darkness in the Seventh Battle of Ruusan. One of the few surviving Sith is known as Darth Bane.

1000 BBY: Darth Bane establishes the Order of the Sith Lords under the aegis of a Rule of Two. Believing that infighting among the Brotherhood of Darkness was as responsible for the defeat of the New Sith Empire as the Jedi Army of Light and Republic were, Bane decides that the path forward for the Sith is for there to be only two at any one time - a master and an apprentice - and to work from the shadows, rather than take on the Jedi directly.
^what this guy said.

Jorander's Avatar


Jorander
01.21.2012 , 07:53 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by JeedaiFiresaber View Post
^what this guy said.
Seconded.
"If your surrender leads to slaughter, that is not because the Force has darkness in it. It is because you do."
"That place… is strong with the dark side of the Force. "What's in there?" "Only what you take with you."

Jorander's Avatar


Jorander
01.21.2012 , 07:54 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by thecordler View Post
Spoiler
Well, now we know how the Jedi got their hands on Book of Sith: Secrets of the Dark Side. I was wondering how Yoda and Windu acquired that and held onto it long enough to write notes in it. Really, I thought that book was to be the source of that knowledge, apperantly the source of that knowledge was also likely the thing that brought that book into the Order.
"If your surrender leads to slaughter, that is not because the Force has darkness in it. It is because you do."
"That place… is strong with the dark side of the Force. "What's in there?" "Only what you take with you."