No, You May Not Roll on Items for Another Class and Strip Out the Mods

(Now Edited to address responses. See below about the refrain of 'you need to make loot rules clear before you start.'

Changed title, in response to the variations of this:

Quote: Originally Posted by Truga

"No, You May Not Roll on Items for Another Class and Strip Out the Mods"
I can certainly do it. I personally wouldn't do it, and I'd probably be pretty mad at a person who did it, but that doesn't change the fact that it's perfectly doable.

The trouble there is confusing 'can' - which is determined solely by you - and 'may,' which takes others into account. The difference is the whole reason for this thread, and the title was accurate, but since it seems easily misunderstood, I've changed it.



Original post:
I can't believe I'm posting about item rolls, usually not a big concern for me. But poor claims hurt group dynamics, and there's no need for this kind of thing.

Today, a Sith Marauder rolled Need to get this
Cademimu Sharpshooter's Jacket
+34 Endurance
+38 Cunning
+18 Critical Rating

when I pointed out it was made for an Agent, like me, he said he intended to strip out the mods and trade them.

When I noted that the mods are Bound, he insisted that since he could wear it, he could roll. More surprising was that when he brought the issue to /General, a few voices agreed.

Most did not, but the others need to know that sort of claim is a party-breaker. This is clearly an Agent item - a huge upgrade in my case - and my next group will get a little less healing as a result.

One of the pleasures of running Flashpoints is the chance to get gear suited to you. If it's better suited to someone else, leave it for them.




Edit: Responses to the Peanut Gallery

That approach hurts your whole team, including you.
If I think that way, too, each FP run will improve our stats only half as often. I'll end up with your Marauder item and you with the Agent jacket as often as the other way, and we'll be no stronger for it.
If the rest of the team responds that way, your odds of bettering your abilities drop to a quarter. Grabbing 'because I can' is a losing standard.

It's definitely best to run with friends. Like a lot of players, I find I need to reach out further for some missions, and that usually turns out well, in part because our community expects players to be considerate of their teammates.


It's not your fault when someone acts like a jerk, even if you didn't give them guidelines ahead of time.

Clarifying loot rules may be a wise practice (on p. 71, Caille recommends a 'loot macro'). But not doing so doesn't make poor behavior your fault. And a loot-jerk won't be banned or punished by Bioware.

The kind of person who would take such a thing (really: a Cunning item, for a Marauder?) would need such detailed loot rules (Can you roll on item that increases secondary but not primary stats? Vice-versa? An item you already have but with mods you want?) that you'll never address them all. If you find discussing loot rules works for you, great, but don't ignore the value of community expectations.






My hope? A class-based rolling system would be nice (and, if an option, hugely popular), but introducing it takes more developer time than the ability to trade a BoP item within a team for a limited period. That option that won't deter the defiantly selfish but would help in many other cases.

Until then, here's to a community that follows Wheaton's Law. Interpretations will differ, but it surely has something to do with respecting others, beyond 'you look after your interests and I'll look after mine.'


SWTOR is just a game, but I believe in the social value of gaming, and if you play in such a way that people were glad to have spent time with you, you're doing something right... whatever you did or did not discuss in advance.

The sad thing is this is an instance that you can go back to later and easily solo farm.

In the meantime someone rolled against you on an actual upgrade for their dress up funzies.

Just put him on a list and never play with him again.

Had this exact same thing happen to me the very first (retail) Flashpoint I did. Juggernaut took Agent chest in Black Talon. Told him it had cunning and he got no use out of it whatsoever, he said he could wear it, I didn't press the point further after that to keep the group together.

I don't understand, with such a mindblowingly simple itemization design, why we can even roll on gear we can't use anyway.

if I am able to press NEED, then i'm allowed to do it


/thread

It's probably more endurance/armor but he loses a good chunk of main stats for cunning, which does literally nothing for a Sith Warrior. Not only that, but what do you think he is going to keep doing if he isn't educated on what to do? He's just going to keep taking gear, gimping himself and griefing other players in the process.

I roll on items for mods all the time.

And I always roll NEED on lightsabers with AIM as a stat.

You want an AIM-saber? You're going to have to roll higher than me, yo. It's a competition. Bring your best dice. I am the official AIM-Saber Ninja.

They really need to add class restrictions to the need button. The problem won't go away until they do.

While it is kind of a dick move, you do have a point that it's Bioware who made the decision for every piece of gear to be needed by everyone else, when in reality they get nothing for it.

I don't understand how this wasn't in the game already. All 4 classes use their main stat. They get nothing/close to nothing from dabbling in the other stats and only gimp themselves. This isn't like a traditional MMORPG where all spellcasters like int, and all heavy melee like str, and all light melee like agility. There's just stats that work and 3 stats that don't.

This is why it's good to be in a guild with people that aren't void of brain function. I hate running FPs with strangers on Jung Ma.