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Revan's fate after the Foundry encounter

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore > Spoilers
Revan's fate after the Foundry encounter

Deviss's Avatar


Deviss
01.17.2012 , 01:29 PM | #61
Quote: Originally Posted by Xenozen View Post
Man that was great. Seems like a.great console game for the ages if any smart dev read this. I loved the uses of all the codexs and kotor games. Bravo you man.
Console game?


I almost finished Chapter 4, will add it soon.
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DarthMetalJoey's Avatar


DarthMetalJoey
01.19.2012 , 06:35 AM | #62
that was really good :], i hope they do bring revan back. its the only reason why im playing tor. because i love kotor one and 2 so much lol, and starwars in general... naturally

Karkais's Avatar


Karkais
01.19.2012 , 07:23 AM | #63
Quote: Originally Posted by WhoDaresWins View Post
Fans would nor have will never, never, ever, ever, be happy with his 'final fate'. It could end with him grabbing the Emperor and pulling him into a volcano to finally end the war and people would still be unsatisfied that he is dead. At the same time if he was left alive they would be complaining he doesn't do ENOUGH if he was still alive and kicking.
Personally I dont understand why he should still be 'the top dog' hundreds of years after his natural lifespan should have ended. I dont understand why the fans would want something drag on so long, it just defeats the purpose of the 'saga'. To quote Q: "All good things must come to an end". The baton is passed on to the players, who by the way, also get to be 'darth's.

Personally I think the end was fitting. I dont remember any other group instance that would have moved me more. Near the end, when this tune starts to play, you get that feeling of closure, cant help but feel sad that a great saga has come to an end. Absolutely great. No massive galaxy-wide funeral, but not all heroes get to die satisfied in their beds. Nobody can say that this didn't provoke great emotions from players, therefore the flashpoint is a success.

What did he say again? iirc "In the end, as darkness takes me, I am nothing."
Players should get the hint.
"Their strength became my own. Their minds became my own. All flesh is my flesh. None move, save I will it. This is the rule the Sith were promised, and I have made it real!"
- From the codex of Karness Muur

darth_thanatos's Avatar


darth_thanatos
01.19.2012 , 10:38 PM | #64
I dunno I mean. The fact of the matter is, he pretty much came to an inglorious, bitter death.

I mean, imagine it this way-

The Imperials arrive on the Dorin's Sky to find a random Sith there, who has taken charge of the crew, but not the operation. he still sends you in, and supervises the operation.

The thing goes the same, except at the end, you can't kill Revan. A new Dialogue starts. Revan laments your power and backs away. He states that he had to test if the empire truly had warriors as powerful as those he had witnessed of the republic characters that saved him.

(Cue a dialogue option; Either warn him they're going to capture him for further imprisonment ((big story change...)), or one last proposal to try and sway him to stop the pointless combat.)

If dark side, Revan scowls and stands defiant. He prepares some form of final ditch attempt to be rid of you, stating that he won't allow it; He will fight back the empire, and the destruction they'll bring, for as long as he lives.

the Imperials begin to fan out, preparing to subdue the weakened Revan. He calls on all his power, it lancing out in all directions, parts of the facility crumble around him. He's willing to destroy the station, and you with it, if he can't win, and it weakens the Empire in the slightest.

He draws on his power and pulls it center, preparing to unleash it on the imperials-

-When the Sith lord from the beginnings blade impales Revan through the back.

Revan barely has enough time to let out a horrified cry before he drops to the ground.

The character we knew, determined until the end, finished by a mere cheap blow.

~~~

Lightside option, Your character briefly talks of how they can work together, and how Dark cannot exist without the light; how a balance of the two will help them complete his goals.

Stunned, Revan lowers his saber. The thoughts are so familiar they might well have even been his own. He admits that perhaps he was too hasty; other options are as available. He had never considered that others might have witnessed the emperors corruption as deeply as he had. He steps forward, and proposing that, as long as the team keeps their distance and minds themselves, he will give them a simple task to begin with, to test their loyalty.

As he approaches ,the this from the begining impales him from behind. The betrayal and anger in his voice is practically palpable, as he drops to the ground, and your characters can only watch in horror as the man they were planning to help mere moments before dies in front of them.

~~~

And I mean, these are only off the top of the head. Sure there's errors with them ,but they could be ironed out over the god-knows-how-long development time bioware had. And thats assuming Revan's actually dead.

In a game supposedly all about choice and how it affects the galaxy, you're pretty much strong-armed into: 'Oh look, Revan, Let's kill him.'

And Revan faces it with all the fear and weight of killing a low level mob. I've been considering some of it, and I think people have been taking it the wrong way. I don't think its even the fact that four extremely powerful people can kill him.

I think its the fact that for whatever reason, The way he's written, it appears that Revan might as well have been saved by the republic, and then thrown himself out the nearest airlock.

Revan knows about the foundry, and the empire has an inkling of it, and so one of the first things he does, is he runs straight to it and paints an enormous: 'Hey, loads of republic troops here! come and get me!' all over it.

He then carefully watches a Sith boarding party, that already raided an imperial ship, fought through his infinite army,and killed his assassin droid, and as far as one can tell, all the persuasive argument in the world amounts to absolutely Nothing as Revan appears to have decided that despite the fact that this group just wiped out a rather impressive army consisting of some powerful creations, at no point should he... I dunno, escape.

I mean Revan was a Strategist. Lord knows we heard about it fifty billion times over the course of KotOR.

But what kind've strategy is: 'Run straight to your secret weapon. Activate it. start building army. Watch army get destroyed by four freakishly powerful imperials. Watch his assassin droid (with backup from extermination droids) get systematically dismantled... Hm... Maybe I should reconsider this foundry thing. or you know...atleast call some of those Jedi Masters down from god-knows-where and get the to back me up here...?

NOPE. Face them solo, with no means of escape leading to a small loss of republic troops and forfeit the foundry.

Waidago. Brilliant strategy.

Tl;dr: If Revan really is a strategist, he's not dead. If he isn't then he isn't the Revan I remember anyway.

Karkais's Avatar


Karkais
01.20.2012 , 02:52 AM | #65
Quote: Originally Posted by darth_thanatos View Post
I dunno I mean. The fact of the matter is, he pretty much came to an inglorious, bitter death.
What exactly is wrong with an inglorious, bitter death? Its an end nonetheless. It is what most major figures get to experience. I think what Revan did in TOR, was meant to alienate both the republic and empire players from him, make him sort of neutral or a mutual enemy. Would you have preferred he die as a hero of republic? That might have annoyed those people who played him as a dark side figure.. And vice versa. This was a sort of neutral ending.

Also, having the same ending for both sides makes it easier to write continuation to the story.

Acta est fabula, plaudite.
(the play is over, applaud)
"Their strength became my own. Their minds became my own. All flesh is my flesh. None move, save I will it. This is the rule the Sith were promised, and I have made it real!"
- From the codex of Karness Muur

darth_thanatos's Avatar


darth_thanatos
01.20.2012 , 09:10 PM | #66
I'm not gunna lie, I will write a few endings that would have been better.

I mean you can't alienate us. Especially o nthe republic side. The last time they saw him he was all: 'Hey you did well, good work, I'mma go be a big hero some more.' Which is Revan all the way.

But by the time he appears to the empire, its like he doesn't care.

In all honesty, if he is dead, then someone screwed up. There's only two ways it should have gone.

1. He dies at the end of Revan.

I mean, I would've been fine with it if like, at the end of Revan, he gave the emperor some minor wound that inconvenienced him, but never really hurt him much, and in his last moments fell desperately trying to further defeat the empire. That's a way to go.

or 2.

They give him a role that actually involves him doing something.

Essentially, Revan's death was pointless. His obsession with the foundry was pointless. it all gets wiped out and might as well not have happened. He didn't sneak in: 'A shipment of powerful assassination droids have been shipped across the galaxy. In every nook and crevice, they will eliminate priority Imperial Targets, and work closer to eliminating the emperor himself.' In reality his plans a bit ridiculous to begin with.


And since we're having such a good time with comparing it with plays,

Let's mess with plays a bit.

I mean, Brutus and Cassius would rather impale themselves than be captured and subjected to Mark Antony's mostly irrational blind Rage. That Makes sense.

But over the course of the Foundry, Revan shows absolutely no shred of any form of common sense at all.

We have the dialogue option to pretty much say: 'Hey, We don't wanna do this, can we just, talk about this?'

I mean imagine, if at any point, Mark Antony had asked Brutus and Cassius about the situation, and then thought: 'Hmmm, Rallying a ferocious mob and killing people with remotely similar names as the culprits and starting a war all because one man was murdered (I.E., Because one was murdered, many must die) might not be the best idea!'

But regardless, Revan proceeds to throw himself at the strike team that, as I mentioned, Just literally wiped out all of Revans army, including his own assassin droid.

I find it peculiar Revan didn't even feel a remote twinge of fear.

The last time a droid of his was destroyed, he was trapped in stasis for 300 years.

Regardless, Revan, despite witnessing his entire army and assassin droid being systematically dismembered, and despite reaffirming that he has 'saved the Republic more than once' never seems to consider: 'Hmm. Perhaps me dieing here does not serve the galaxies best interests.'

I mean, I've mentioned it in regards to characters before, but In a different context, but I'll repeat it here:

'When writing a new addition to a character's story, its usually a good idea not to take a huge dump all over the things that make your character distinctive.'

In reality, anyone with a pencil could've found the script for that battle, rubbed out 'Revan'
and written in 'Darth Mcherp-a-derp, and no one would've been any the wiser.

Aside from HK 47, none of Revan's distinctive traits are there.

There's no strategy being employed. Droid's mill about pointlessly if only to provide enemies.

He doesn't even express anything that made him 'Revan'. He talks briefly about how he's found clarity in both the light or the dark, but as far as anyone who played throguh both sides at least once, but never KotOR would be concerned, He's just an imbecile who's relatively normal when he's congratulating you and suicidal the next.

I guess here's a good way of putting it. It's like, during the Malak fight in KotOR, Say Bastila hadn't gotten trapped on the ship, Malak didn't turn her, or you know ,just briefly disables her and then comes after, fighting and workig to truly kill Revan. Wounded and in need of time to recuperate, If the story were still to proceed, Revan would find a way to an escape pod yada yada, So on, So forth. The game would go on, eventually to the Star Forge battle, etc, etc.

Instead, Revan steadfastly decides :'NOPE. CAN'T RUN AWAY. GOTTA DO THIS NOW.' And Malak cuts him down, leaving the rest of the galaxy to sit and ponder why Revan didn't just take the extremely short amount of time it would've taken to step back, and set forth the motions that would've led to the battle aboard the Star Forge.

Karkais's Avatar


Karkais
01.21.2012 , 01:47 AM | #67
Running away rarely creates epic events.
"Their strength became my own. Their minds became my own. All flesh is my flesh. None move, save I will it. This is the rule the Sith were promised, and I have made it real!"
- From the codex of Karness Muur

DarthRegnator's Avatar


DarthRegnator
01.21.2012 , 03:11 AM | #68
For some awkward reason (It is fitting, however), this song was playing when I "killed" Revan in the Foundry: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yfvhi6Gfx0o

My friend and I were pretty speechless afterwards, especially when he delivered his final line. We both were really connected to his character, more so him than I. After the flashpoint was over, we lost the urge to continue playing. It felt dirty, wrong, and inconceivable that we, who had no say in the matter of the situation, had to kill our "hero." I guess being emotionally connected to a character for that long does that to some people.

I am not against the notion that Revan had to die, but the way it was done was rather, forced. In terms of storytelling in videogames, there is always a linear path. But I figured that Bioware would have given us a choice in the matter, however subtle it could have been.

When I created my Sith Warrior, I aimed his ambition and loyalty to the Empire as a whole and to further our dominion over the Republic. But in light of these events, my warrior was not serving the Empire; He was serving the Emperor, who is a selfish, genocidal, wicked tyrant that MUST be overthrown for the survival of the galaxy. The two dearest "heroes" of mine, Revan (Despite his insane goal to eradicate all Sith blood) and Malgus, represented the opportunity to accomplish that goal. To reform the Empire from within. But the Emperor killed them both, using me as his weapon, his puppet of choice. I was his Wrath, when I did not want to be. Whether Bioware intended me to feel this way about the ongoing state of affairs is unclear. If so, they succeeded.
"The difference between a fall and a sacrifice is sometimes difficult, but I feel that Revan understood that difference, more than anyone knew. The galaxy would have fallen if Revan had not gone to war. Perhaps he became the dark lord out of necessity, to prevent a greater evil." - Kreia

Karkais's Avatar


Karkais
01.21.2012 , 03:57 AM | #69
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthRegnator View Post
It felt dirty, wrong, and inconceivable that we, who had no say in the matter of the situation, had to kill our "hero."
Well you didnt have to, you could have just quit the FP. :P
Killing him was your own choice.
"Their strength became my own. Their minds became my own. All flesh is my flesh. None move, save I will it. This is the rule the Sith were promised, and I have made it real!"
- From the codex of Karness Muur

darth_thanatos's Avatar


darth_thanatos
01.21.2012 , 11:05 AM | #70
Quote: Originally Posted by Karkais View Post
Well you didnt have to, you could have just quit the FP. :P
Killing him was your own choice.

Woo,... if you don't want to pay for gas, do you just put tape over your gas meter so you don't have to see if it think you should get some?

And since when was Revan... or anyone in the Star Wars universe worried about how 'epic' their encounter was?

Usually, the will to live is a bit stronger than: 'Gee whiz, I better keep fighting, this battle isn't epic enough.'